Tools Of The Trade For Nose Work

We map the gear that makes nose work trial days safer and smoother, starting at the vehicle and ending at the start line. We also challenge a few common habits around booties, reward delivery, and “set it and forget it” car cooling so dogs stay comfortable and handlers stay clear-headed.  

Transcript

Welcome And Gear Philosophy

SPEAKER_01 0:10

Hey everybody, welcome to our podcast for August. So, gear up, we want to talk about tools for the trade. So, we're going to talk about all the gear that we use and that sort of thing, um, from parking lot to search area and what tools are available that might work for you and your nose work team. And in so many ways, Alex and I have already talked about this, but so much of this is so subjective, like what you like, what works for you. So we just wanted to have that open conversation. It kind of came about because I had sent her an email that said, okay, on this next podcast, I want to talk about booties because that's kind of one of my pet peeves, is booties. The pet peeve is just if you're gonna train your dog to to search in booties, then honor your dog by giving them the opportunity to wear the booty. So we'll talk about that a little bit more. Let's say hello to Alex.

SPEAKER_00 1:00

Hey, Alex. Hi guys, yeah, I'm looking forward to this topic. I think it's one of those ones that gets ideas flowing. So maybe you've been living in your own world of how you do things. Perhaps some of the concepts here might be like, oh, that's curious, that's interesting. And it just is an excuse to try things out and maybe talk to other people and see what they do.

Tents Awnings And Quick Setup

SPEAKER_01 1:20

I can remember. So I'm gonna go way back to 2000. Let's see, the first time I did a trial was 2011, 2012. Right. And Kathy Vito and I had our tents. We had a whole tent that we brought. And we put the tent up behind the Subaru, right? Yep, yep. And this was I think that one would even was a standalone tent. Then we got the one that would latch onto the patch. Yeah, right. And we loved it until it got really warm out in Colorado. And we got in this tent and went, wow, that's way too hot. It's right. Right. So then it graduated from there. This is just kind of going to what gear are you gonna put on your vehicle right away, thinking of car crating and and vehicle crating, right, in the parking lot. And then it turned into like one of those little awnings that attached itself to the vehicle, but it was it was so it wasn't quite a pop-up. It was really something, right, that just sort of attached to it. And that was back in the day when I had that half hour, 45 minutes, maybe an hour to set my stuff up. Right. Right before once I started to host, oh heck no, there was no no longer that amount of time. So that's really curbed my appetite for a lot of the setup. So let's go from I had written down, okay, so parking lot to search area. So let's start with uh the parking lot. So what kinds of gear and tools of the trade kind of are part of that whole crating for your dog safely in your vehicle and for you to be comfortable, right? And then move out into your search and then come back.

unknown 3:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:02

So what are some of those pieces?

SPEAKER_00 3:04

So, like you mentioned, the tents. I think there's still a lot of people that use them. I don't, I think it's a lot of extra work. I'm like you, I just need to drop and go. I have also been at trials where the wind picks up and that one leg of a tent scratches right over the top of the car, and then that's several thousands of dollars. So I have kind of gone away from tents and things like that. If I can luck out with a tree, awesome. But otherwise, illuminettes and

Shade Screens And Airflow Basics

SPEAKER_00 3:30

I personally use two. It's easier to change because I do rent cars for most of the trips that I do, big long driving trips. So two really helps me. But some people use one big one, right? And so a big, huge one over the whole vehicle is kind of handy. It's really nice and easy. But those illuminettes, they do come in different strengths or thicknesses or whatever. And so having one that has a lot more airflow, I find, is much more useful versus some of the tighter weaves that you can find out there.

SPEAKER_01 3:57

And those tighter weaves almost look like a garden tarp.

SPEAKER_00 4:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:02

Right. It's it's like it's a material type thing. Um, and I remember again back in the day, they actually had one that was tested in the Mojave Desert to reduce the temperature in a vehicle by like 40 degrees, right? So we actually got one, but it was solid. Oh gosh, yeah. Like there's no netting to it whatsoever. So yeah, the car may be that, but it's so stifling with no airflow, right? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, and one of the things we know scientifically, right, is that we need the airflow. We need to have we do. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:37

And why is that important? Well, you think about how we cool ourselves off is by evaporation of water, so sweat on our skin, right? Here in the desert, pretty easy. You get just a little bit of airflow and you cool off pretty quick. So you put an illuminate up and you have a little bit of a fan, or there's enough breeze in the environment. You're good, you're cool. Like, yeah, it's hot, but it's manageable. I went, uh, we were both at that Minnesota trial, it was a year and a half ago, and it was 90% humidity and 90 degrees. And it didn't matter how many fans you had on the dogs, the illuminates were on. I was lucked out with a shady spot, but oh, that was hot. And I was putting frozen water bottles in with my dogs. So using big one-gallon jugs and freezing those solid, uh, luckily I had an Airbnb and I could put them in with the dogs, and the dogs would lay next to them, and then it became like their own little ice pack, and that worked really well.

SPEAKER_01 5:31

And also getting those cooling mats, you know. Initially, I always thought, oh, I don't know that that's gonna work for my dog. My dog's never been scratcher, like at the bit, right? But it is kind of a funky material, sort of. And then I was thinking of it. Some of them have gel. Don't worry about the big thing. So the one I have now is gel. And it's pretty strong, and Zeke's done really well with it. And it does, you can put your hand on it and feel the coolness. So it really does work in that regard. And then it's got this surface so that if he's got muddy feet or whatever, it's not a problem, right? So some of those work very well. Some of the other things, you know, I did kind of think of what you just mentioned, which is putting in like the ice cube trays or whatever that go below the mat.

SPEAKER_00 6:18

Yeah, and I know I'm always worried because I have dogs that get into trouble that they're gonna chew on something like that. And then I'm worried about the chemicals in them, right?

SPEAKER_01 6:27

Depends on what I'm saying. Well, and also if you're renting a car, right, then you don't have now when you do that.

SPEAKER_00 6:33

Do you have a crate that they go in or do you Oh yeah? Okay, yeah. So my dogs always travel in their specific crate. So I normally get a van, so my trans canine gets put in there as well as I got a roughland for Vespa. And then I actually carry a small wire crate for Vespa because the roughland I do find gets pretty warm. And if I'm stuck judging somewhere, I can open everything up and she's still pretty warm, even with a fan. So I'll put her into a wire crate and it works really well. And so then I just strap the wire crate down, kind of either in the car or near the kind of the back bumper, and she's off the ground from radiation of the heat, but she gets a lot more airflow and she stays nice and cool then.

SPEAKER_01 7:12

You know, and I travel in a truck. So typically I haven't been able to like, you know, have the doors have that airflow that gets increased by either having your hatch open, that kind of thing. So one of the trials last year in Montana, I actually put a wire crate up in the topper and had Zeke get up into the topper and you know, lifted him out when we were ready. Yeah. And that was a wire crate in there, and then opened up the windows that were in the topper as well. Oh boy, that was really much cooler, quite frankly, than him being in the truck in his crate with the windows down with the illuminate on, right?

SPEAKER_00 7:48

Yeah. So yeah, it's amazing what you can get. And I think the big thing, so I'm talking from the western slope, we have a lot less humidity. And so as a result, if you can get shade, you're good overall. Yeah, you still have ambient temperatures. Like we can get up to 90 degrees. I've even seen a hundred at a trial. And as long as we have shade, some sort of shade happening, you can get quite cool. But when we start talking about that humidity, it makes it really hard. Even when you have shade, it still is quite stifling and it can

Humidity Heat And Cooling Dogs

SPEAKER_00 8:20

be quite hot. And so then we have to start making some decisions. Personally, one of my dogs in the past could not deal with the heat. So I would not trial when those times of the year are happening. And so I can make those decisions for her.

SPEAKER_01 8:32

And some of that can happen too when you decide that you want to travel somewhere, right? Yeah. And then you have to take that into consideration. So, right, because when Alex is mentioning humidity, you know, normally I would tell you, oh, wait, this is a girl who's lived on the East Coast in humidity, blah, blah, blah. It can't be that bad. Well, you spend 35 years in Colorado in dryness, yeah, right? Go to Minneapolis. Wow, I never realized how humid could affect me in terms of my ability to stay cool. Absolutely. This is the next piece, right? First is the dog, and we want to keep them safe, you know, and all those sorts of things. The next piece is what about us? And if if are we overheating and how do we stay cool?

SPEAKER_02 9:19

Right.

SPEAKER_01 9:20

Yeah. So that's kind of where sometimes I have to say, okay, we're just gonna have to turn the AC on. And if the windows are down, the windows are down, yeah, right. So that I can at least get myself cooled down.

SPEAKER_00 9:31

Totally sufficient. Um, some of the things that I've run across as an AKC judge, we are always trading tips on how to stay cool because it seems to be a constant discussion. So, one of the things that I found is they're off of Amazon and they're like a ring of it's not quite ice because it's a little bit more gel-like and it freezes quite well. So you freeze, there's two of them in a pack and you can freeze them and you take one out and you put it around your neck. Holy smokes, that can help, especially when it's getting warm out and you're kind of stuck out in that environment. It really cools the blood as it's going to your brain. So we kind of rotate through those and maybe I've got four of them. And so throughout the day, I might just pull out another one, pull out another one. And they're not so cold you can't put them against your skin, but those work really well. Or like one of those towels. Right. So they make the cooling towels now where you get them a little bit wet and they stay cool. Same concept with the dogs with the swamp cooler jackets. Those all work as long as you have not too much humidity and a lot of airflow, right? Once you have that humidity or not enough airflow, then you are just putting something wet that is going to stay wet on you and it gets your body heat, and then it just becomes a problem. Uh soggy and hot.

unknown 10:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:43

Yeah. So same thing with the swamp cooler jackets. Like they're the same thing for the dogs. They work great as long as you have that airflow across of them.

SPEAKER_01 10:50

Right. And I know a lot of folks really plan on being outside their cars, right? Um, and can even bring another crate along. Um maybe it's not the crate that the dog travels in, or they have the dog secured in the car, not in a crate. And then when they get to the trial site, they take them out and put them in the crate outside the car and then sit there in a in a chair with them as well. So one of the things that I just ran across, Summer Davis has the most amazing chair ever. Oh, it is a rocking camp chair with like this cushy thing all over it. It's uh-huh, because I just saw it at this last trial in Bayfield and went, oh my god, I gotta try that. And sat in it and it was amazing. Or actually, that was in Leadville. Okay. It was amazing. Yeah, it's very comfortable. It was like, of course, it could have been because I was exceedingly tired. Yeah. My feet were sore and who knows what else. So we can't. Yeah, so that's all part of the so you know, and the challenge here is that how whatever gear you're gonna get, and we've talked about this before. Alex has actually mentioned that she kind of has like her vehicle set up to go to trial well before trial, right? Where you have your list of did I get all of this put in there, right? My truck kind of just stays the same, like it's the same every day. And then when I go to trial, I'm fortunately underneath my topper, I also have a deck system with the drawers, and in there is the illuminate and the magnets, right? And the clamps and everything else that I might need to set it up. But it's getting to the trial site with sufficient time to get yourself set up, right? So that you don't feel crazed, right, about checking and all that sort of thing. And sometimes that can be just, you know, maybe help a buddy and a buddy will help you, right? That kind of thing. Because how many times have we seen people trying to set that up? And you're like, oh my goodness. Way back in the day, uh, Deanna Bunn at an ORT fell off of her SUV trying to put yeah and

Cooling The Handler Without Overheating

SPEAKER_01 12:50

broke her wrist in the parking lot. Yeah, that's scary. So, and that was years and years ago. So I'm sure she'll she'll love me to mention that, but right? So it's also being safe while you're doing it, that kind of thing. Yeah, so for sure. So the other flip side that we really didn't talk about yet is cold. Yeah, yeah. You stay warm when it's wet. Yeah, because we start our trial season in in Colorado in early March.

SPEAKER_00 13:15

That delta trial you have in November in the Delta. It's always below zero a Fahrenheit, like it is cold. Um, so yeah, it's just in the morning, guys. It gets warmer during the day.

SPEAKER_01 13:26

It does get warmer, but and that's an Arizona girl talking about how cold it is, but it is pretty chilly.

SPEAKER_00 13:32

It's cold, it's pretty chilly, especially when you have to get there before the sun ever even thinks about rising. That's one of the biggest reasons, too, right?

SPEAKER_01 13:39

Because when we're looking at that shoulder season, or and I'm gonna just call it shoulder, because although summer, like is for you guys in Arizona, is and even like with Jen in Georgia, that's kind of like her off season. Right. So she goes from like July to September, kind of not as further.

SPEAKER_00 13:59

Do you? Yeah. Yeah. Like our last trial here is normally beginning in May. Okay. Might be able to squeeze something in, but normally it goes May all the way through September, are gonna be your non-season. And if you you're gonna have to be pretty creative if you want to trial in there, right? Upper count country is gonna be a little bit better, like Prescott and Sedona and stuff, but in general, we go October through till April.

SPEAKER_01 14:21

And in Colorado, I'm looking at shutting down basically. Yeah, on those times. Yeah. Sometime in November.

SPEAKER_02 14:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:29

Sometimes I push it. It depends on where where we're located, right? So trying to keep out of the mountains and so that we don't get that snowstorm. And then, of course, what's happened these last few years with this drought has just been like hopefully it hasn't lulled you into a sense of of oh geez, it's not gonna snow here until right, maybe in December. But December, January, and February are my months of it's you know, I just it's just too risky to plan. Yeah, and the temperature is a good piece of it, if not snow. Exactly. Right? Yeah. So so then with heat, I mean, well, needing heat in the car, let's put it that way. Not heat temperatures outside, cold temperatures outside. Yeah. So what are some of the things we can do? I know for myself what I do is I definitely have different footwear. So I have on my like my hiking boots, right? Yeah, and that can be kind of challenging in some of the searches. I haven't yet had to say, Oh, I want to take off these boots and put on my right, put on my running shoes or whatever, right? I do try to just wear those. As a host, what I try to do is make sure that I've got carpets so that it's going to come in, right? And same with rain. Like, like imagine the one trial you had that was your deluge in the big part. Like you had everything wet. Yeah. So so some of those pieces that weather can throw at you. I've had wind so strong in Peaks, Colorado, that we actually had to call the trial before we could complete it. It was hope, I think it was almost the end of our last search. It was a vehicle search, but it was so windy, it was blowing over the the round, what are those 30 ton maybe it's not 30 ton, but three three ton hay bales, right? That are like stacked and they're circular, right? So we looked out the window and the neighbors' hay bales all fell over. And I went, Oh my god, that is like crazy. Went out to visit the search, and Bob, the judge, was having to grab his sheet, shove it in his shirt, and then he's got a big long beard. His big long beard is pushed sideways, right? And people were, you know, how you when you walk resisting the wind. Yeah. And we actually had two people who just

Parking Lot Safety And Efficient Setup

SPEAKER_01 16:40

plane got blown over, like as they were walking, they just like tripped or whatever, right? Yeah. So we just had to say, okay, that's too much wind.

SPEAKER_00 16:47

So some of those weather pieces. Setting up your vehicle when you have that much wind, you can't put a luminette on. Yeah. I'm gonna tell you at some point it starts getting ripped off, or you're getting a lot of rubbing damage on your vehicle. So you might want to think about that, right? And so I have found typically when the wind is that much, it's not super, super hot. Right. And so you can kind of get away with starting to put it away. And you have maybe I've just struggled because I like the screen in the front of my windshield. And so when it's super, super windy, that starts to kind of move around a little bit. I've even clamped it to my physors in the past so that I can keep the windshield on the inside of my car. But when the wind is whipping through my vehicle, oh god, because I've got windows open, it's still a little hot. Yeah, things can be moving. I drove home. Uh, we had a trial up in Chino in March, Chino Valley, which is here in Arizona. And the winds, we had 30 mile an hour gusts. So it wasn't constant, but it was gusting. It was hard to judge. The dogs did amazing working out the searches, but my vehicle was so dirty afterwards. I had to take everything out and detail it because I had tree seeds and dust and dirt and like rocks and everything in my car from the wind, just whipping it off.

SPEAKER_01 17:59

So we even had mud season. We have mud season in Colorado. That's that season between when all the snow melts before it gets warm enough to dry out the ground. At least this is what it used to be, right? Yeah, yeah. We had a trial in Montrose at the little museum one year, and it was so muddy. I actually put in the information for people to plan for the mud.

unknown 18:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:20

And the ones that were most prepared, this is really kind of interesting, right? Were the ones who either brought like the patio mat, oh yeah, right, and just put the patio mat out on the area where the dog was going to get out. Yeah. Right. Because as a host, I can try to plan for you to walk in a particular area, but I can't like give everybody a guided sidewalk, right? Yeah, yeah. And then the other one was cardboard, just a big piece of cardboard. Yeah, that's threw it down. Yeah. And so that really worked for them for the throw it out after. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:52

So but those are tough. Along the same lines, because that same site has had really bad foxtails in the past. So one of the tools that I have prepared myself with when I was going to that is bringing a small little comb and a pair of tweezers so that I was prepared to pull out foxtails when I brought my dog back in the vehicle.

SPEAKER_01 19:09

That's

Cold Weather Prep And Season Planning

SPEAKER_01 19:10

a really good important point. Right. Right. Because too many of ours, especially with the drought, have or even goat heads. Yes, the goat heads are. At least with the goat heads, though, you're you're it if it hits in the paws, which is where they typically are.

SPEAKER_00 19:24

Yeah. You're gonna know it like immediately with your true. But if they break off and you have a spine stuck in, you need the tweezers. They hurt. Yeah. Um, so I have been prepared to pull things out of my dog's feet. And I think that's maybe something we don't always think about, but it always goes in my little extra little bag that goes next to my crate.

SPEAKER_01 19:43

So, and that's one of the benefits too of booties. Booties and booty training, right? Yeah, for sure. So, so and then that let's talk about while we're on this subject, which is because we had mentioned earlier when you and I were talking about this topic, that AKC has a new policy that they've prop promulgated, however we want to say it, right? That certainly they've attempted to communicate to everybody about keeping the dog at a safe temperature in the car. And primarily sounds like it's focused on summer or heat. Yeah, but the words may also apply to cold.

unknown 20:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:18

And for any time, give us kind of an update on what that is.

SPEAKER_00 20:22

And um, so I've been following it as much as I can. There's been a lot of people who have been asking questions and then getting some responses, and there's been some updates from AKC, but it still is it's yet to be tested, right? And so that's starting, I think it was rolling out on the 29th. So we are two days into it, one day into it. So this weekend is probably the first weekend of trialing that it's going to be affecting. I do believe the main focus of it was for confirmation people, but then it rolls out. We've got competition, right? We are out here doing nose work for AKC. And so when we're talking about that thing, the keywords is unattended. So it means that nobody is watching your dogs whatsoever. And if you have a neighbor in the parking lot and you trade off kind of watching the vehicle, that does count as being attended. And so you can start relying on fans and AC as long as somebody is attending your vehicle and watching that. I feel like as a competitor, unless you're volunteering, you are going to be near your vehicle and it's not a huge impact for the vast majority. I think it has a bigger impact on judges and people who are doing a lot of volunteering. So, as judges, I might bring my dogs to a trial, especially because they can be a dog in white or a demo dog in AKC. And so they are sort of unattended in my vehicle. And so that makes it a little bit more difficult that we would then have to designate a volunteer if you were trying to run your vehicle and keep your doors closed. There are some judges that will do that. Personally, I leave my windows open. And if it is too hot, then I will figure out if I can get my dogs inside or I won't bring them with me. And I think that's pretty standard, but that it defines definitely. Adds a little bit of a challenge there. The other things that are in that guidelines is that if your vehicle is basically completely closed off, windows closed, back door closed, everything closed, and all you're relying on is the AC and maybe a fan on your dog and hopefully temperature reminder, that's that situation that they're worried about, is there if those things fail, uh there is no airflow whatsoever to the dog. And so that's what they're trying to prevent and kind of be cautious about. And I think the people that that may hit the most is an electric vehicle because I agree. A lot of us are not running necessarily an AC. That's pretty expensive to run all day long. Some people do, but when you have an electric vehicle, you might be relying on that all day. And that's where AKC gets a little bit more worried, and maybe why this has kind of been pulling out is that we are seeing more and more electric vehicles where if the power of the electric vehicle goes off for whatever reason, it's all the pieces together that can go. So that becomes a bit of a problem.

SPEAKER_01 23:01

So then what are the what are the what's the criteria? So the vehicle must be attended. Yeah. And then is it it must also have ventilation windows down? Is that what you're looking for? Yes. Yeah. And it doesn't yet say it doesn't specify how far.

SPEAKER_00 23:18

And it doesn't say what attended actually means. You go into the bathroom and you come back. What I've been reading is that's still under the definition of it's being attended. Okay. Um, so that's where kind of there's a lot of gray zone. Maybe that's on purpose to allow committees to, because if there's a problem, it can be written up. That's where it goes to, is the trial committee for AKC for that show. And then that trial committee.

SPEAKER_01 23:43

And explain to me what the trial. So feeling we're talking about somebody who's not very familiar with AKC. Yeah. So so where is that on site that there's a committee?

SPEAKER_00 23:53

Yeah. So AKC premiums are written. So you have a trial chair, trial secretary, and they are supposed to be on site at all times. And then you have five additional trial event committee members that are supposed to be on the trial site at all times. Sometimes a premium is written where it's like, and any other club members are on site. So then they can pull in if somebody has is only there for half a day or whatever. And so then it's that group. And that's why that has to be determined and written down and planned for. Because if you have a trial committee hearing, it there's paperwork to do. You fill out your paperwork and then you pull the person in, you have a discussion, you send the person out, you have your little vote and your discussion, bring them in and tell them what you've decided. And that's for the trial. And it can have bigger effects if they consider like a dog died in a vehicle and the trial committee is saying this needs to be like AKC standard. It all goes to AKC, but then we can make even more recommendations from there.

SPEAKER_01 24:51

So that's, I mean, I would think that that's a good thing to have that oversight. However, is there is there a concern that it could be inconsistent in its application, right? Yeah. Some folks who may have experienced something that was a very negative, you know, event for them, may have more feelings, if you will, right about that rigorous enforcement versus somebody who, you know, maybe is like yourself who's a judge, also judges or volunteers and like just understands the complication of it. Now, there was a really interesting there, well, there's several out there studies, you know, in the tech vet world, right, of the tolerance of dogs that can build up to be able to tolerate high heat, right? Or heat. The challenge that I think that what they constantly are talking about, and I think this is maybe where AKC brought in the that concept of ventilation, is that our dogs really can adapt a lot more than we think they can, um, if they're given enough ventilation. And obviously

Wind Mud Foxtails And Paw Tools

SPEAKER_01 26:00

the shade, the shade becomes the shade in the vehicle. Right. The challenge is if you don't even have any kind of a luminette on your vehicle, inside a vehicle, even with your windows down, can be very hot. Yeah. Right. So the windows down, you may be saying, Well, there's my ventilation, but we have no airflow at that particular point in time, right? And now we have a hot vehicle. The dog's also in a crate in there, which could complicate that. So just all those pieces. So, what do we suggest that people do so that they feel, right? At least I guess with this, what we'll have to wait for is more definitive explanation, right? Yeah. But ultimately, if you're kind of in the position where you're actually competing while this is kind of being decided, maybe some of the pieces we just talked about, which is make sure that you can use visible, open visible ventilation, right? So, because as I walk past a vehicle, if I'm the certifying official or I'm the judge, and the granite is the judge in AKC, you don't get the opportunity to get into the parking lot to see how it's going unless you're not judging it particularly, right? And then you're probably pretty busy setting up your next searches. So you so you really don't that this is a trial chair issue, yeah. Yeah, isn't really monitoring the parking lot. So yeah, that might even be. And is it your responsibility? Do you have any responsibility there to have that conversation?

SPEAKER_00 27:23

Okay. The judge is just your search, it's the trial chair and the trial committee that's going to be in charge of that kind of stuff. Okay. So I think the big thing is having a buddy in the parking lot.

SPEAKER_01 27:33

But that could be a question that any competitor could ask, right? Into the just right to the trial secretary and the trial chair or whoever, hey, will you have someone who is going to be not necessarily monitoring or police, yeah, but at least able to go out and observe in the parking lot, right? Yeah. So that if you do have a buddy who it's in the car next to you, but it's not right next to your car, and your car is there and the windows are down. And as you go by the car, you can hear, physically hear that fan going off, right? Right. So if I'm that person who's just checking to make sure everybody in the parking lot is doing well, I'm gonna get those that kind of feedback. Right. Now, yeah, within ECSW and some of our other organizations, the certifying official is pretty much responsible for at least double checking, right? And making sure that the safety of the dogs is, you know, a primary concern for everybody. So we would walk through the parking lot. And when I do see any vehicle that appears to be well buttoned up, let's put it that way. And not one of my first things, well, so and you mentioned electric vehicles, which is kind of tough because as I walk by, first off, if they've got if they've got their shade sheet sheet shield on or Illuminate or whatever it is, sufficient that I can't see in through the windows, I can't tell there's somebody sitting in the driver's seat, right? Right, right. Then I can't really hear the car rumbling, yeah, right. And yet it looks fully buttoned up to me. And I'm also wondering, are they out to go to a search or is there a dog in there? Right. Right. And now what do we do? Do we want to start knocking on the window, scare the dog to death, and yeah, and the handler, right? Oh my gosh. So for sure. So it might be one of those where you even have to ask people, you know, even with an electric car, like, yeah, is it that big a deal to put your window down at one of those windows if your dog is secured in a crate, right? You know, six, eight inches, right? So that we can tell as we walk past just on observation that that I

AKC Unattended Vehicle Rule Changes

SPEAKER_01 29:40

do have a window down, right? And then I can at least say to somebody, hey, are you in there? Yeah, exactly. There's a way to communicate. Now, I did have one of a comment at one of ours with an electric car. They were very worried about the car. So in our premiums for NACSW, the host can say that you may have your car running or run a generator, but if you too choose to make that choice, we may ask you to move away from other vehicles so that we don't have either exhaust fumes, noise, or any of those concerns. So one of the concerns was that it was an electric vehicle that was being run for purposes of AKC. Turns out the handler was in the vehicle. We just couldn't see the see that that person at all. And the concern was well, but even the electric vehicles can overheat their batteries, yeah, and have so not just have it shut down and then it becomes an issue for the dog, but some kind of yeah, some kind of combustible situation going on, right? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:43

So but I have walked around. So as CO, or as a honestly, I have a student who has a VW bus, the electric bus, and we tested it one day. So we had a hot day of class and she left her vehicle running the whole time so that we could keep testing to see if there actually increased in heat around that vehicle. Because she was really curious if she went to a trial with this vehicle, could she leave it running? Would that be heating anybody up around her? And nothing. Yeah, didn't have any change in heat whatsoever. It was nice and cool around the vehicle because there's airflow around the vehicle. So it actually ended up quite fine the whole time.

SPEAKER_01 31:22

Right now, what can you do in terms of temperature monitoring, right, within the vehicles? There's a whole bunch of gizmos out there. Yeah, there's the last one that I have, I didn't even get one that because at the time that I got it, uh, we really didn't have much on the market for pets for dogs, right? So I got the little wine fob. It's the fob that you put in a wine, in your wine refrigerator, wherever in your wine cellar. Yeah, right. And it's an app that goes to your phone and it works really well. So it can tell me now, granted, I have to be within Bluetooth distance of my vehicle to tell, you know, for Wi-Fi, one or the other. Yeah, yeah, to tell, you know, if it's gonna be accurate in getting to me the information, right? Because that's the other piece, is it's and you have to look at it. So you can't just look at it and go, oh, look, it's only 67 in there. You have to go 67 and yeah, is it within the recent, however many, blah, blah, blah.

SPEAKER_00 32:16

Yeah, yeah. I've been looking at a few. I've had them in my Amazon cart for a very long time. I just haven't bought one because I keep having my windows open and I'm checking them regularly enough. But I've looked at ones with uh humidity sensors as well, because I really kind of want to know that humidity within the vehicle, especially like I've had some really hot, but it's monsooning. And so now we've closed up the windows because of the monsoon rain that's happening and it's hot and I want to stay in the vehicle with my dog, I don't necessarily want to close them up into that because it stops raining, right?

SPEAKER_01 32:49

And that's the same as the flip side of when it's cold.

SPEAKER_00 32:51

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_01 32:52

Yeah. So if it's really cold out now, if I have an AKC policy that says I must have my window down, yeah, right. Am I making it colder for myself and my dog? For sure. Yeah. By opening the window. Because unless I'm running my vehicle and having the heat on, right, right, which then can pose its own problems in terms of your lips turning blue because you don't have enough oxygen. Yeah.

unknown 33:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:20

So exactly. So so I think that overall the message though is that most of our organizations and our hosts and even our competitors are very concerned about our dog safety. Yes. And whatever we can do to make that day more comfortable, right? I mean, the last thing we want to have is that you cannot, because I don't see this as being an answer either. You cannot crate your dog in your vehicle. So every trial must have indoor crating because that's gonna really limit the capacity, one, for the facility, the host, and two, for the to the dog who is capable of even in person. I couldn't as a deal with that. I've done like one, I think, indoor crating out of my entire 14 years now or whatever. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:06

And I didn't feel so comfortable with that. Yeah, right. And I think it's also assuming that there's AC in the buildings that you're working. Yes, there is some areas because they are traditionally not over hot, right? That they may not have AC and they just don't have that installed. And so to say you don't want to run it all summer when no one's in the school. Exactly. Right. And so to say, oh, we're gonna put them inside, it could be miserable inside and worse the situation than you had the airflow outside in your vehicle. So yeah, I don't think that there's a perfect answer. I think it's just this constant thing that we're going to have to be evaluating and making decisions for ourselves.

SPEAKER_01 34:41

Well, and I think that some of the things that can help is just to do a little bit of research. And if you want to, I mean, I would think that AI can pump out what is the going information, right? From from, you know, even Penn State and that sort of thing as to what are the, you know, what should I be looking for in terms of symptoms, right? Or in terms of body language from my dog, that my dog is overheating or my dog is cold.

SPEAKER_00 35:06

Like there is an amazing free webinar. I'll see if I can find it and we can put it in the show notes, but there is a free webinar out there for people to recognize that. And it's built for working dogs, but it is highly applicable for our dogs. So I'll see if I can find that and we'll put it in the show notes.

SPEAKER_01 35:22

Yeah. And I think that some of that, and it might be from the same webinar, was the time frame within which you continue to check on your dog and then looking at the panting, right? For heat, right? And I think for cold, if your dog is like in a circle, you know, they're all tucked in and their nose is under their tail or you know, is trying, right? And some of the pieces, because in Colorado, I have to plan for that, right? Just getting to work. So I have blankets that I put in the crates so that my dog can snuggle underneath it. I even you can even put a blanket over top of your crate that will hold in some heat. So it's kind of doing the the reverse to creating more airflow to create coolness. You actually want to combine and use their body heat to create that warmth for the dog, right? Right. And then, of course, in both situations, I'm gonna say booties, right? Yeah, protect the paws. If you can train, if you and if you've never done it and just feel averse to it, then don't worry about it. But boy, is that a good way, right, for the dog if they're gonna get out and it's hot. Now I'm not really gonna

Ventilation Gray Zones And Electric Cars

SPEAKER_01 36:30

be as concerned, although sometimes I do need to be walking across those hot surfaces, right? Yeah, if my dog has booties on.

SPEAKER_00 36:37

But also something to remember is the main way that they're going to cool themselves off, other than panting, is through their feet. And if you keep booties on, you are restricting their ability to cool themselves. So it's on on the hot surface and then off whenever you get to wherever you need to be. I've even been recommended to use one of those paw washes, and I've done it before when it's really hot, is you put their feet in the paw wash with cold water in them. And so they're like a little canister with like little nubbies on them, and that can really cool off the feet. And so you just do that before you put them into the crate, and that can work really well too.

SPEAKER_01 37:12

Well, and they have those, what are they just the cooling coats, right? But you can get some that are like lycra, and then the belly piece is a little bit thicker because I have the cooling jacket, and you put it, you put it down into a bucket of water, and if you have to at a facility, just bring your little bucket with you, go inside, get water, come back out, dip your jacket in there, get it on the dog. The other thing that mentioned, and I think it might have been in this webinar you're talking about, is spray. You can bring a bottle of spray, like and I have a very long-haired border colleague, right? Well, believe it or not, he may actually stay cooler in heat than Izzy, who has white and almost opaque skin, right? Yeah, kind of right and very short hair. And he will he will get himself into the shade almost immediately. But with the long-haired dogs, the concept is, I suppose, with the short hairs, it's just sprayed on top, but lift the coat, right? So that you're actually spraying kind of down underneath that coat, and that can make a big difference too. And that is obviously with airflow, blah, blah, blah. So yeah. So there's some of our ideas for what we're gonna do in the parking lot to make ourselves comfortable and also safe for our dogs. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 38:22

Exactly. Moving on to handler. Oh, I have one more. Sorry, for handler in the parking lot, but also going into the search for heat, like as in it's cold out and you want to stay warm. Oh, those heated vests and heated gloves and scarfs, yeah, and like there's a big brand that's out there that I love Aurora.

SPEAKER_01 38:39

And I could tease Alex because she's from Arizona, but guess what? They work, they sell it. She's from Canada, yeah, and not only Canada, but from what I call sub like sub-sub zero Canada.

SPEAKER_00 38:52

When I moved down here, it was minus.

SPEAKER_01 38:55

Like your nose, your nose will freeze when you go to inhale. It's cold. Yeah. Yep. But that is our point. So I haven't used the heated vest. My husband actually has one, and mostly that's because, believe it or not, when I get too hot, it's all melts are off, right? Yeah. So what I've had to do is learn to really layer, right? So even now today, I have on two layers probably sitting in the air conditioning in my office. But the challenge for me then is getting into the search. Oh my God. I get into the search, I've got on, right. I've got on, you know, the underlying my my sweatshirt on top of it, my coat on top of that, a vest on top of that. Yeah. Get to that search, and I'm peeling. If I'm inside, I'm like, oh my God, I got to take this off this office. You're staging inside, and then the search is outside. Yeah. Right. That's another one that's tough. So, and just be vocal. Just take your time and make sure that you can do it as comfortably as you can. And obviously, one of the other things would be footing. So if it's wet and you've got water, um make sure, you know. Cause and now when you get into handler, that is kind of one. I have a little pet pee about footwear. And part of that is just because you know, as a kid, I wanted so badly to ride my bike with my flip-flaps on. Oh, yeah. And you went right. Oh, no, it wasn't that I wasn't allowed. I found out the hard way why you don't want to do it. Yeah. Right? Because you came off the pedal, went straight down, knobbed on the on the cement, and you ended up with significant abrasions all across your toes, right? So the point is that that flip-flop isn't a consistent, reliable, secure footwear, right?

SPEAKER_00 40:40

Yeah, I could not imagine wearing flip-flops and trying to run my dogs. I'm just saying.

SPEAKER_01 40:45

Right. I mean, if you do have that dog where you can do it, I still would probably recommend all you gotta do is get one that has that heel piece. Right. Right. Because then if you had to, right, whether the dog ran off or had some reason to run off, maybe a squirrel, blah, blah, blah, and you dropped your leash or whatever, right? Now you yeah. And and also I the other piece I think that can be really challenging with footwear is the surface, right? So trying to wear flip-flops in rain on a sidewalk, that'd be just like, you know, a little slide slip and slide. Yeah. And then on ice would be, you know, your other side of it. So okay, but under handler, we have all the things. We've got treat pouches, toy. How do you carry your toy? Like, do you try to put it under your arm? Do you hold it in your hand? Does it go in a in a pouch? And I've been given a lot and bishop a hard time about her toy because she puts it in her vest. She's got a hunting vest and it goes in the back pocket, right? Yeah. Well, the two dogs she has, Ellie. Now, as soon as Ellie hears 30 seconds, guess what? Ellie does it. She grabs the bumper that's in the back pocket. Now she's working with Finn and it's she's so used to having it in that back pocket that it's coming out at this very slow rate while she's struggling to get that toy out. And the dog is like learning all of these chains of behavior in between before the dog finally gets rewarded. So, my advice or my preference, it's not really advice. My preference is if I'm going to use a toy, have it somewhere like in my Alex and I both use these aprons. One, I like it because the pocket is nice and big. I don't have to like guess where it is. It's right there. I use the first one for food, the second one's my toy, and the third one further back is maybe got uh poop bags in it or something.

Temperature Sensors And Body Language

SPEAKER_01 42:40

Yeah, yeah. Right. And I can just pull reach right down and I've got my toy right there. And then I can put it away, get my hands on my leash. So that's what I highly for fluidity as a handler, right? So that even if you're, oh, I only need to hold on with one hand. Well, maybe, maybe there's times you do want to reel in and reel out. Maybe there's times you need to get it unwrapped, you know, all those sorts of things of what we do with unleashes.

SPEAKER_00 43:04

And I think it's also talking dog training here is so I've got two different dogs. They both like toy, and I have used toy as a reward. If I have my toy visible while Vespa's running, it spikes her arousal and she's more focused on the toy at times when things get harder versus staying focused in the work. So for her, I do need it in a pocket, in the back of my apron, like it is fully inside a pocket versus George. We've gone through all of this and he has now learned to work with the presence of the toy out there. It's normally under my arm, but typically I'll start the search because we end up doing a lot more animated work at the beginning of the search. And so then that toy is normally in a back pocket or in the apron. And then once we've started rewarding things, typically things happen a little bit quicker. And so then it goes under the arm at that point.

SPEAKER_01 43:53

And boy, that's so true with food reward dog, right? Yeah. So, you know, and as instructors, we Don't help our handlers at the beginning by saying, reward your dog, reward your dog, right? Yeah. So then our handlers get to the point where they're holding their treats constantly in their hand. And now this becomes a distraction to the dog. Yeah, because they're following the hand with the cookies. And not only that, they can smell it so much easier, right? And now, granted, you're like, okay, you can tell the difference between the treat smell in your hand versus in your pouch. Well, they can tell where it is, right? And then that typically is part of that reinforced, you know, behavior that the human does, that the handler does, which is okay, my treat must be coming in. And I've noticed that a lot with Zeke lately. So he does a lot of of the little check-ins to see where because I've been doing things like tossing the treat at him, doing remote reward where he comes to me and I toss it. So I've been doing a lot of variables, right? Because he's he's at that level, he's a league champion, he's at that level. We're moving into summon where I can do some of that. And I do it more for variety, more to keep that expectation rather than always coming right and always always, I don't like that word, but you know, having this such a behavior of me coming into the search, yeah, being into the reward. Yeah. Into the as my re my reward system, right? Just coming all the way in because I might in summit really want him to move quicker. Come to me, get it right. And there's pros and cons to that in terms of odor, and that's not really what we're talking about. So there we go. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So then we have vests, aprons, bait bags, footwear, yeah, and then hats, even.

SPEAKER_00 45:39

So okay, you have leashes on here. I think this is kind of a fun topic. So leashes, everybody has their own preference. You've probably used one. If you've only used ever one and you're okay with it, it's okay to explore. I can tell you, I probably have six leashes, seven leashes. I've explored a lot and I figured out what I like. But at the same time, what is allowed is maybe another question that we can answer right now. So a flexi lead. You can use a flexi in a search. You cannot use a flexi, just free flexi on the show grounds, typically. You normally need to have a different leash or have it super short. And so that is something to consider if you want to use something like a flexi. I have used them before. I quite like them for Vespa. She's right now not very tight in her work. And I don't need to be moving with her every single step that she makes. So it lets her do her little spanially thing, going back and forth until she finds her line and then we can get going. So it is a tool that you can use. For some people, I've seen some people use flexi lines really nicely in a circle. Really well. Yeah. Really nice because it creates a constant tension and it works great. I used to have a student that was handicapped. And so we had the flexi line tied to her belt with a carabiner. And so it allowed for her to have one hand controlling her wheelchair and another hand with a glove on controlling the line to her dog. So she kept having that connection. But because she didn't have two hands available at all times, she could manage that in and out that needs to be happening as her dog's moving. Now there's some restrictions when you have a flexi. It is really hard to go under a chair and pop up the other side. So you do have to kind of understand how to manage that. You can't let go of a flexi and then pick it up on the other side. So it does change your handling a little bit, but it is a tool. And I think sometimes we really poo-poo it, but it is a tool, right? It's one of many methods.

SPEAKER_01 47:30

And that's kind of one of my concerns of when, even if I was very good at it, having had the dog that was very dog-to-dog reactive, is that the flexi, even if I used it at a very short distance, right? Yeah, it kept it very short as I was walking through maybe the parking lot. My concern is if my dog were to bolt, right, that then I may drop it. And that becomes this really challenging

Handler Clothing Footwear And Rewards

SPEAKER_01 48:00

issue for the dog when they've got this, right, this plastic handle bouncing behind them, right? Yeah, and catching up to them as it pulls out.

SPEAKER_00 48:10

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 48:11

So and causing them to run even faster away. Yes, yes. So, but you know what, we can do that with our regular leashes too. Just you know, it gets out of our hand, and now the dog's, you know, carrying this 20-foot line behind them, right? Whatever. So yeah, so leashes are fun. I think that over time really have changed a lot. I when I look at this NW1 that I did, that is kind of atrocious in terms of my understanding of how to even begin to handle back in. Yeah, which we've watched that way too many times. It was very short. It was very short and it was like a parachute cord, but that was like the parachute cord that I now walk my dogs to go potty and then into the vehicle with. Right. Right. Like, like it's the part, you know, a six-footer, right? And I had that at only three feet because I was right, yeah, yeah. Yep, because it was an exterior and it had a tree in it, and I was convinced my dog was gonna pee on the tree. Right, right. And the hide was on the tree, and there you go. And yeah, yeah. So, so really have graduated from that to the other pieces with leashes that you might want to look at, and and this is kind of that whole if you've if you've talked to either handlers or instructors who really love short leashes, yeah, and they even love short leashes with very boisterous dogs, very uh strong dogs out there right now. Yeah, right. And it's that decision of whether or not you can manage that dog's specifically velocity and acceleration, right? With power, the acceleration, the takeoff, right? Yeah, so for instance, Archer and Gene Meckstroph. So she has struggled with because he and I, you know, watched her, blah, blah, blah. And as her instructor, I said, Oh, here, let me have that leash. We've got to slow him down, right? You cannot. He is that strong. And so part of that is you could have earlier on, right? But now she's at Summit and he this is really part of who that dog is in his searching. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 50:10

Because it's yeah, you know, but I think there's always this projection that happens as the dogs are learning. And if you start really close for some dogs, they're gonna just go into handler focus. Yes. And then it's really hard to get that into really good point. Yeah. So I think there's a journey that a lot of dogs can go on, especially with these powerful dogs. I've got one, and right now he works beautifully on a six-foot, and we've been doing it about a year and a half, almost two years. But at the same time, I put him on a long line every once in a while and I put him off leash every once in a while. And I couldn't do that a year ago. Now he's hitting his lines and staying very close. So he's learning the pattern of happening. And then I am able to use a longer line, which is easier on my shoulders. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:50

I'll take it. Yeah, yeah. And that's a good point, too, because during Zeke's journey, I've used in a very long line, but was able to very much do. I think one of our judges, Bob, actually said to me, it almost looks like fly fishing, like right where you reel it out and you're very good at bringing it back and it reels out again and you're very good about bringing it back. And I've always kind of liked that. I like that as a handler, I like that inner interaction and engagement. It feels very connected. Yeah. So as opposed to I'm going to carry a long leash because I'm really worried that I might need a long leash, but then I never really use the long leash. Yeah. And I don't develop any muscle memory in my body or my ability to be the handler with both hands on the leash and having it move in and out, right? Then I might as well be using a shorter leash. Exactly. But for the longest time it took for me to even, because I feel like Zeke went through what I call, we called it the happy feet stage. It was also being a border collie that North 40. If I've got a whole room full, a large room full of odor, he's gonna, his tendency was to move out to solve the furthest out hide. Right. Yeah. So I used it a lot for purposes of just containing, if you will, our movement of where we were going before I stepped into now. I want the dog to make that decision off-leash that he wants to get the four close hides before he moves into the right. And granted, to this day, we're gonna let the dog decide that based on what odor is presenting at that moment, at that time in that search, right?

unknown 52:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:28

So there's no hard and fast rules to any of this, right? It's just all thoughts and and you know, some of that, like Alex was suggesting. You might hear something and go, hmm, I might try that. Like, especially the tube around the neck that's frozen. I might have to just try that.

SPEAKER_00 52:42

They're similar to like the fans, right? You can get fans that go around your neck now, and those are really nice. This is different, it's cold, yeah. But they're nice.

SPEAKER_01 52:50

So, okay. So then how about for the dog? And this is kind of where my booties came in, but right. So some of us run on a collar, some on harnesses, some feel very strongly that a collar's not appropriate because you're it's gonna pull on their lair, you know, or you might have a throat issue there. Some really feel like the harness is gonna get twisted, or quite frankly, I've seen it where it really, like with Archer, really empowers him to really get his whole. Oh my gosh, it's almost like it's ski juring, right? It's almost like he's gonna be the sled dog and really get into it. Then clips and leashes and long or short, all those sorts of things, and what really might work for your dog. And then, of course, booties. So I'm sorry about that. We've got a fire alert. Yeah. And I don't turn those off. So it's kind of that discussion. So, how do you what what do you think about booties? Like, what might be some of the indications that we need to use? Try booties. Is it you know, and I've gotten into great long conversations with people about my dog showed some uh sensitivity, trepidation, maybe stress, maybe conflict on this on a surface, whether it was a shiny surface, or it could even be quite frankly, I've seen some that just hated gravel, yeah, right? Or or those sorts of things. So I want to know sensitivity, yeah. Tender footed. And it could also be but then they almost right, but then you almost get into the conversation where they'll say, no, it's because it's shiny, so it has to be visual, right?

SPEAKER_00 54:22

Which honestly, my answer to oh, it's a visual thing or it's something else, is normally if your dog

Leash Choices And Managing Drive

SPEAKER_00 54:30

has more grip, they are going to be more secure in themselves. And even though it looks like they're not slipping, you might want to try it. And it can lead to the answer without you realizing it. Well, I draw this right back to a human.

SPEAKER_01 54:43

Okay. So I have gravel all we have reduced fire zone all around our house. Okay. So we do not have grass, I do not have soft dirt. It is gravel. I walk out there, my bare feet. I cannot walk on that gravel for very like very far, right? Yeah, yeah. Cold surfaces, I didn't my I don't like to walk on that with bare feet either. Slippery, right? I like to have traction. I also prefer to have my so I have Solomon shoes that I wear that are like almost like cleats at the bottom. They're actually an agility shoe, what people were recommending for agility. That's what I really like because I like having that kind of a grip, right? Right. So I don't do well in the flip-flop sandal category or the the tennis shoes or or sneakers that are have a very smooth bottom. Or even the minimalist, what is it? The the barefoot. That's what I like. Yeah, right. So even those for me can be kind of, you know, odd. They just feel odd, right? So so I think if we have those kinds of sense sensitivities, and yes, I could look at a surface and I could go, okay, that looks like it's got water on it. I think I want to walk softer, right? If you will. And right, yeah, and with my muck boots, right, which are right for the gumbo we get at our house, especially during the latest deluges we've had, you almost just scoot your feet, like you don't pick them up and put them down. And that's also kind of the method you do uh for ice, right? Right. You just slide your feet along. So I can even look at a surface and go, okay, that gives me, okay, wait, I don't want to do that, right? Yeah. So in some regards, I almost feel like, hey, let's not overanalyze whether or not it is just caused by visual, just caused by that hurts my feet, or I right, or I'm slipping. Right. Or would Zeke I'm gonna tell you that this border cully, and we have this vinyl flooring at home, so he's grown up with it.

SPEAKER_00 56:53

Right.

SPEAKER_01 56:54

His brain will trigger for his body to move faster than he can gain traction on the surface. And that's sometimes what causes that initial scoot, scoot, scoot. And then once they had that response, they're like, I don't slow down or I can't do it. I can't speed up. I can't slow down. Yes, I can't do any, right? So how do we? So if we get to that point, what are might be some of the indications, some of the symptoms that our dogs might show us that we should try booties. Secondly, how do we introduce our dogs to booties? Oh, yeah. And then thirdly, like what does how do you make those decisions of what booties to buy and when to wear them, right? I mean, there's like this whole that's why I said we could do a whole podcast on just booty wearing, right? Yeah, totally, totally.

SPEAKER_00 57:40

Yeah. To me, the biggest sign that I'm gonna start looking at it is the dog's unwillingness to go across a surface. So it might be they walk into a room and they go, I don't think I even want to take a step into this room, or they take a few steps on it and then they scoot to the side of the room because they're avoiding the middle of it. If we're talking about maybe sensitivity on gravel, it might be that they start off pretty good and then they start really slowing down. Maybe like you're feeling like they should be beside you and they keep like legging behind you. And so we can start looking at that. Totally not part of this, but also another thing as I'm thinking about it, is heat, right? So I've trained my dogs to search in booties for the sole reason of every once in a while you have a search and you're a little worried of the heat of that surface. It might be totally fine, it might be sensitive for your dogs, it might not be so great. But if you have booties, you have an option that you can use. Yeah. So you're not stressed about your dogs.

SPEAKER_01 58:38

And you know what? That's one reason I've trained all my dogs where I live with booties is because of winter. Yeah. Right. And very cold. Like there's times we go out in the morning and we've got a little bit of snow, but it is sub-zero. And by the time they get back to the door to come back in, they're literally holding up their paws because they're so cold, right? Right. Now, granted, that can happen anytime because you've got a warm paw going out into a cold surface, right? And am I always going to take the time to put a booty on? No. My point though is that that became part of why I went, okay, if we're going to go hiking or snowshoeing or something like that, I want to put booties on them, right? Yep. And then the flip side is the heat, right? Yep. In fire season, I've thought of that a lot, which is, you know, now, granted, now I run the silicone, which would not be a good choice, quite frankly. Right. But, and I don't know that there would be a good choice if you actually have that kind of a situation. But yeah, um, I've just thought of okay, even walking through debris and that kind of thing, you know, what would be the safest thing for my dog? So training my dogs with booties was just something I just did kind of right away. Right. But then when I got into nose work, I've had my two border colleagues who definitely have exhibited, and I almost call it the oh no, right? Oh no, we don't go. And I almost call it the belly crawl because as they get to that right, they get so low that it's like, oh, I don't know, right? Yep. And then what we found was that by putting the booties on and having the dog experience that same situation with booties on, they were able to navigate across it and go, oh, I was successful, right? Yeah. Now you do the booty training outside of that surface, right? So the versing, right? So what I was able to do, because I had two dogs now that have passed that had much bigger feet than Zeke. So I took their big, big booties, which were like almost flipper sized compared to Zeke's feet, right? But at least it I didn't have to fight him to put it on, right? So sometimes people who use the balloon booties, those are hard. Bless you. I don't know how you do it because I can't get the bloody thing, you know, even with the little scissor thing that you hold it open, put their paw down, and then you let it go. And I tried once with Zeke and didn't snap it right. And boy, he just do I can't even get near him if if I've got one of those in my hand, right? So what I did with him was just got an extra large booty, and you can always borrow them from somebody if you don't, you know, want to own them. And I put them on all four feet, and then I did something just fun in the house, right? Like maybe it was just tossing the treats across the floor for them, yeah. Like, and you always get that, yeah, the weirdness with them, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:01:26

The weirdness and you want them to move out of that. So I love doing like I do it normally on my back patio to start training, booty training. Vespa's next to be doing it, but I might do a primary search where there's tons of kibbles that they love to hunt. They know that kind of thing. I just throw a kibble for them and go work because I'm done with you. And so they go do that. And this time, maybe it's just back booties, maybe it's front booties, or maybe it's all four. Typically, I find I can throw on all four with them because I've done enough foot desensitization elsewhere. Um, so for toenails and everything. But then they're searching, they're hunting, which is what they love to do, and they're hunting for food. So there's no extra pressures, there are no extra anything. They're just having fun doing it. And then as soon as they're done, I pull them off so that the dog is not experiencing the boots without the fun. And it starts to associate it very quickly that when they see the boots come out, oh, we're doing a primary search. I love it. And then they can get going.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:20

That's a great way to start it. And then I think as you progress, I still have Zeke who will like not totally pull back in his crate, but he doesn't like hand me his booty, his paw, and say, Yes, put my booty on, right? Yeah, but I also have to be very good about how it because he does have duclaws, right? And now I'm using the Wagwells, which are the croc style, and there's other brands that you can get, not just that one. And part of why I like that is because it's the one that I can

Harnesses Collars And Booties

SPEAKER_01 1:02:50

get the closest to his size, if that makes sense. Because with a lot of the others, it's not, it's just not snug. And then I'm gonna get the push-pull, and then you almost wonder, okay, just like wearing tennis shoes, should I have a sock on the dog and then put the booty on top of the sock to avoid the blistering or any kind of friction, right? And you know, some of the best things to look at for that is the mushers, too, because they have like lots of ideas, right? Because their dogs are wearing those booties. And then once I get to that point, then my dog's booties are really part of their nosework gear, right? Right. It really for Zeke, it's empowerment. I I believe that with him. It is when he goes, I can do it. It's as much as his his cot his everything that he has on when he goes in to do a search is now part of his gear and it tells him this is what we're gonna go do, right? So, and you know, if you start out that booty trading later in their nose work life, you're gonna get different, like, oh my God, I hate this, right? And they'll like kick him off. Another example is our true last night in class. Gene turned really quickly. He wanted to follow her, he followed her, and the back booty just blew off. Oh, yeah, right. Because he's actually got two, and this is with Zeke, he no longer wears back booties because they're of different size, and I couldn't find a size small enough to stay on the back feet. Right. So that's where all four might work for your dog, uh, front might work for your dog, rear might work for your dog. And just I think one of the biggest things is once you train them, a couple of my pet peeves are one when a handler tries to look at the walkthroughs or tries to decide for the dog whether or not that surface is shiny enough, whether or not that surface is slippery enough

Booty Training That Builds Confidence

SPEAKER_01 1:04:40

for the dog to have to wear their booties, right? Right, right. I think just put them on, let the dog decide whether or not they needed them. Because unless you have a negativity of my dog won't search with the booties on, then we don't really have booty training that happened, right? They're there, right? Like the first time I got those Wagwells, I actually had him do agility out in the backyard with them. Oh and granted, that wasn't such a great idea because he like ran right through the silicone, because those are not particularly right, which is not a good thing. Learn your lesson, yeah, and they're expensive. But no, after that, no trape thing, right? He got to do his favorite thing that just takes him totally out of this is uncomfortable. I don't want to do it, yeah, right. And so that's what I would highly recommend. If their toy dog, have them play with a toy in their booties first, don't have them go do a search first, right? And the primary is a great way to do it, right? Just throw out that because then the dogs aren't in conflict if or we're not in conflict, going, yes, well, there's the high. Why is my dog not proceeding to it quickly enough? Oh, it must be the booties. They don't like the booties, right? Yeah, so it's that whole thing, and it's a partnership thing here. So I think that if we're gonna wear good footwear so that we can move move in these different surfaces, let's give our dogs the same benefit.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:56

Agreed, agreed. And I don't think that there's one boot that is the best. Oh, it really depends on the dog. Like Tana, her feet were perfect for roughwear. Like there were some roughwear p shoes that just fit her feet so perfectly and they sucked right around them. And she got an abrasion once at a truck. She turned too fast. I just put a boot on her. It wasn't open wound or at all. I just didn't want her to like cause any more issue to it. So she was just wearing the boot all day. It never came off and never was a problem. And she was fine. So I think it really depends versus George's feet are too big for them. They just don't fit right. Like what you're saying with Zeke's because everything just isn't right. They're short. He's learned to step on them to pull them off. Oh, and so if I put them on before we go into a search, like standing around from the vehicle to the stage and areas, and he's kind of standing there, he'll step on one to pull it off, and then he'll step on the other to pull it off. Oh, that is hilarious. Oh, it's so bad.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:56

So now we go into a lot of our searches with those two in my back pocket and the fronts.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:00

But we'll figure that out. I have a feeling I might have to get the long ones or something else. Right. But there's a lot of options. Those wag wellies I've tried with him and they don't quite work. That's why I bought her a set of the nonstops. I like them because they are covered and they are designed for heat protection. So I do like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:16

And there's, like we say, there's tons of brands out there. The challenge, the biggest challenge I find is the size. Right. Even the ones who say, Oh, put your dog's paw down like this and draw around it. Well, typically that's you know, that's getting the full depression size. The weight on it. Yeah. That's the full, and it's also the full depression size, which it could be bigger than right, than when they're running on the front part of their front paws. Yeah. Right. Or in the front part of their black back paws. Right. So exactly. So those can be, and those back paws can be so difficult because it's got the, if you want to call it the ankle, right? Yeah. That part that's and do they have dew claws, not dew claws, it gets caught under them or above them. Yeah. Yeah. So there's a lot of factors. And then some of the other factors are really watch their toenails, right? Because that's a really good thing. If they're too long, they're going to be pushing. It's just like having one. Yeah. When we get a shoe that's too tight and then it bothers. Or our nails are too long. Yeah. Our nails are too long. Exactly. Exactly. So, or like I would had to go out in the mud because yes, I had a very definite mud experience this last week. You did. Yeah. I did. In the mucklucks, right? So rather than so up at the house, rather than put on my hiking boots, which would have made so much better sense because I have them tied around my ankle and even in mud, they're going to stay on my foot better. Yes, they were going to get very, you know, you gain about four inches of mud underneath your foot. Yeah. I decided to put on basically the rain boots that have that don't, oh, I have such a blister on the back of my left foot that happened almost instantly. And it was one of those blisters that hurts just from lying on the bed. Right. So yeah. Yeah. So imagine if your dog kind of gets that kind of and it's the sloppiness, right? So that's really what you're looking for. So, and if you don't really feel comfortable making that decision, just get with somebody who either you know has had booties because they've most likely experienced, and in my case, have a whole inventory. I have a whole inventory of boots from from the past five dogs that you could possibly pick from. Because I, you know, I just always figure, hey, no point in getting rid of them. These are still good booties. I may have a dog come that that needs those booties.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:31

So that's something that's my booty thing. Our club has done, so our AKC club has done, is that we have trading. So we do like in our kind of like our dinner and our Christmas thing or whatever, is you can bring old equipment and trade it for new equipment. So if somebody has a pair of boots that's like, oh no, these were too big, too small, it didn't fit. A lot of people will bring that kind of stuff to it. And then hopefully somebody else has a pair that will work. And then you can even maybe, if the dogs are there, we do kind of a fun event once a year, then maybe you try them on. Well, that's a great idea.

SPEAKER_01 1:10:04

So some of the other things just this is handler too, but the timers, videos, and music, right? So we all have a timer that we think we like. Yeah, and then we change it, whatever, and then we forget to turn it on. Yeah. The first step is to

Boot Fit Problems And Brand Options

SPEAKER_01 1:10:20

at least put it on your wrist or around your neck, whatever it is. And then video, right? Because so here's one of my pieces and one of my kind of choices going into summit. This comes from me as a CEO. Not every trial is going to have video services. Agreed. Yeah. Not every search is going to have a working camera to capture that summit search. Yeah. Not that you want to plan for disputes, but if you have your own body camera, not only can you go back to your own vehicle and verify whether or not you actually gotta hide or gotta know or whatever was the circumstance, which really helps when you understand your score as opposed to your memory. But you can also use that and ask the CO in the score room for a potential review, right? Yeah, yeah. Now music, music is an interest because there's a lot of folks who one, I like one handler who, yes, you do play music, but one handler even uses it as a timer. So they have figured out either is it then that the they tell the music to only play for that amount of time, or is it because they know you're song? Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:30

So I'll use like a three-minute song for a three and a half minute search. I'll use a four-minute song for, you know, and so then when the song ends, you have to know your songs. Yeah. But when the song ends, then you know that you're going to end up in a situation where you should be calling finish soon. Right. Right. And I'd start mine right before we start. But what's interesting is I only like music for Tana when I was running Tana. I think because we were quite a bit more of a team, I didn't have to think so hard about every little piece of my team. Versus for George and Vespa, I still am not at the point where I want to listen to music. I feel like it's too much. I've got too many things I'm thinking about. And so it's kind of an interesting thing to kind of figure out of like, I think.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:12

This is kind of how I felt when the player came out when we were skiers in the 70s, right? Remember and you used to put it on your chest and listen to music. I was like, I can't ski and listen to music. That's just can't do that. So the biggest thing about timer that I will say that's a huge benefit of getting to know your timer and start trying to use it is that when you review like your results and you really want to figure out, okay, what are the things I need to train on? Should you find that you are leaving time on the clock? Yes, right. And not if you want to pick up more hives that you're leaving hives and leaving time. Now we might need to do something so that you have some capacity to understand that you're gonna use your time more effectively, right? Yep, exactly. So that can help. And and for years I've done that even like with can't go backs. So if can't go backs, sure, I typically will set my timer to halftime. Not because I'm gonna move on at halftime, but because I want to know it's a good burning halftime in that first area. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:13

So and it's easy to restart. So I do like halftime minus 10 seconds, yeah. So that I have time to go down. Okay, ready? Restart.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:20

Okay, go. So the other challenge with the timer is you can get the sailing watch. I come from a sailing family, but sailing watch starts back up after it hits zero. That's so you, yeah. And it and you and I like to turn off all the buzzers. So there's times when I come out of a search and I go, I don't get it. I had 10 seconds left. Oh, wait, it's counting back up. So just be aware of that. Ask

Timers Video Music And Wrap Up

SPEAKER_01 1:13:40

some people who have some timers and what ones they use and what ones they like. And that kind of covers it. The only other things we had on here were more like, hey, what are some of the fun gears for like odor, odor information? So that would be, you know, either all your vessels that you use that you put all your odor in, how you carry it, um, and maybe some of the smoke pens with the cirrus to determine like where airflow is moving or not moving, all those kind of training pieces. Yeah. So those are some more fun things that that we can look into, and maybe we'll perfect look into that on another podcast. So that would be fun. For now, we've really covered all the tools of the trade guy from everywhere from the parking lot to your search area and kind of talked about variables, right? Various kinds of things that you might want to investigate. So gear up and get ready for your search using some of the tools for the trade. Cool. Thanks, Jill. This was a fun conversation. Yeah. Thanks, Alex. Okay, we'll see you guys next month.