Find Your Fix- Sport Dog Scent Detection Podcast- Training Tips and More !
K9 Scent Fix—Find YOUR Fix- Sport Dog Scent Detection Podcast
JOIN THE FUN ! Canine Nose Work coaching tips and tricks to help fix your training and trial challenges with an open mindset. Offering methods and techniques that might be new to you or outside your "usual". Chatting with the experts, experienced nose work coaches and guest speakers exploring new ideas, how to use them and build solid training resources with Mountain Dogs and Release Canine.
Join us for the LIVE podcast via Zoom - watch for each LIVE podcast announcment and interact with your Hosts Jill Kovacevich from Mountain Dogs and Aleks Woodroffe from Release Canine. Email us at mtnnosework@gmail.com OR aleks.woodroffe@gmail.com WITH your Topics or Comments. We love to hear from you our K9SF Handlers !
Recorded Podcast released within 24-48 hours or during the first week of each month. Look for the Podcast posting at k9scentfix.buzzsprout.com
Find Your Fix- Sport Dog Scent Detection Podcast- Training Tips and More !
READY SET GO- FIRST SEARCH SUCCESS
Hey everyone, welcome to our podcast for the K9 Cent Fix. I'm here. This is Jill Kovasevich, and I'm here with Alex Woodruff. Say hey, Alex. Hi. So welcome to the end of 2025. So part of us wants to go, okay, let's have a whole discussion about looking back on 2025 and all of our successes and challenges and yada yada yada. Well, and our goals. Yeah, and our goals. Yes, it's always that thing, right? Where you kind of have to go, oh Lord, I have to make goals again. Yikes. So instead, what we've decided is let's get ready for our first search of 2026. So we're gonna, our topic is ready, set, go, first search success. So we're gonna jump right in and talk about um what does this mean and how do we uh help ourselves as handlers and our team uh to be ready for that first search at trial. So, and we'll also interject like some things we can do in training, obviously, but really it is this training for trial and getting prepped for a trial success. Okay, so Alex, take it away. What do we want to talk about first?
SPEAKER_01:All right, so I've been hearing uh and watching as a judge, um, and I've been seeing some kind of themes and hearing some things from some of my students and some kind of things that have been going on. So, everything from the ritual that we might have before we go into that first search, and how does that affect our dog? How does that affect us? Maybe our nerves, because if that search is not going well, is it because of us or is it because of our dog? I think those are questions we should be asking and kind of exploring. I don't think that there should be blame placed anywhere, but I think it's things that we can look at. So is it nerves? Um, maybe is your dog distracted? And maybe they were in odor and then we have a ritual and it takes them out, or maybe are we dealing with arousal? Personally, I know I've got an arousal problem with George because he really struggles to think in that first search, and we end up fighting maybe a little bit more than what we want to. So, hey, if we're talking about goals, that would be my goal for the year, and I've written it down is working on that arousal for the first search. But I know Tana struggles with first search, and for her, it might just be we're a little achy, she's older, she's not nice on her body, and so maybe that first search, maybe we need a little bit more of a warm-up, and I can do something before we get to a trial site. So I think we've got a lot of different directions we can head here. Why don't we start with rituals? Um, because I know we all have them. What are your rituals?
SPEAKER_00:Well, and so that's an interesting topic because I can remember back. Oh, I think I was Zeke must have been either NW1 or NW2, and I actually asked you, like, like, you know, I'm just I'm so nervous when I get up to that start line. What can I do? And your reply was just, you know, it's not much different than when you prepare yourself for anything else that you have experience doing, right? So, um, but there might be some things that you want to do consistently that are easy for you to do, to remember, that kind of gets your brain engaged with this is okay. This isn't chaos, your blah blah blah, right? It's familiar. And I have a tendency to kind of like not think of these things until it's almost too late and I go, oh, guess what? Blah, blah, blah. But your your advice at that point was just putting on your your whether it's a treat pouch or it's a vest, or in it, in the case of you and I, we both use like aprons, just put that apron on. Um, make sure you've got your treats in one, you know, whatever pouch you wanted it. Um, do you have that toy with you? So it's like, and and granted, so part of this is also kind of coming off of when is my turn, right? So I've come to trial, right? I've kind of talked to my friends and yada yada yada. I've got my running order number and now I know when I'm supposed to go. Okay. So now I'm kind of sitting in my car. So, in one regard, I almost want to say that start line jitters for the first search starts in my car. I'm already going. I'm already going, oh Lord, did I look at the smug mugs? Should I look at that back in the day when we did physical walkthroughs? I'd be like, oh my gosh, do I have my map? Do I know? And this wasn't because I was one of those who would even memorize that map. It was more just all those voices in my head getting excited, yeah, right? Yet there is a part of this sport that is so unknown, you will never know it.
SPEAKER_01:So yeah, especially with the newer dog, right? So if we're talking this is you thinking NW1, NW2, or novice AKC Advanced, right? You don't really know what you might get when you walk to the line with your dog until you've been trialing a little bit. So that kind of unknown of what is my dog going to do? Is my training going to stand up or are we going to walk in and everybody forgets what they're supposed to do?
SPEAKER_00:Well, and one of that is that human piece of where what do we typically remember most? Our horrid failures or our wonderful successes. I hate to tell you, we typically remember what went wrong, not what went right. And at the lower levels, I don't have enough what went right to really have that confidence yet to go, oh no, we got this, right? Yeah, and to have it have become so that's why you know you could say, oh, in training, make sure you're doing the exact same ritual so it becomes a ritual. Yet I think as soon as you step into that trial environment, it's different, right? It's just different. Now, what we just talked about though can still be the same. So I'm I'm gonna come around, okay. I've whatever jitters are going on in my head before my numbers coming up, and I'm actually gonna get my dog on leash. I'm gonna come over to his crate. I'm standing in front of his crate or wherever he's gonna get out of. I put my apron on, I've got my treats where they go, I've got the toy where it goes. Uh maybe, and this isn't for everybody, but maybe uh you want to put a timer on if you use a timer. Yeah, right. As I got further up in the ranks, I became that I really wanted to be more aware of time, and my self-timer was not working. So I needed to put my timer on and remember at least to put it on. And for a long time it became, and it still is, one of my things that has to go into my ritual is to remember to start the damn thing. Darn thing. Yeah, yeah. At the start line or before at that last gate, right? Yeah, um, my my camera. So there's another thing, right? I'm also putting on my GoPro. Um, heaven forbid if you're in weather and now you've got to figure out how to get all your gear on. Then comes the dog. Does my dog have on the um harness that I want him to have on or the collar they want to have on? I actually put uh booties on their my dog's front feet. So does he have his booties on? What leash am I gonna wear use? Oh, that can become choices. Yeah. Yeah. So I think that um sometimes what happens, I think, with training, especially in a class, um, we get lackadaisical with that like little checklist. And sometimes we'll go, oh, you know what? Um, they're waiting for me inside. I'm gonna go in without my booties on. So, but maybe not worrying about whether or not your dog needs the booties, but saying, My dog at trial is going to have his booties on. I'm not going to make that decision for my dog. So I'm going to take time in training so that I put my booties on, right? Yeah. I just did some training at home with a training partner, and by God, I put Zeke up in the crate in the truck, put his booties on, right? It gave me another opportunity to do it, just do it so that and it felt comfortable to me. It wasn't like I was trying to um corral him somehow between my legs, which isn't where I put his booties on. I put his booty on, and that's why I put them up in the crate, because then I can get them on, right?
SPEAKER_01:But it allows you to do the routine, yeah. Yeah. So so one thought, and I've had a lot of my students is I try and say, okay, what is a goal that you can make for your trial day that is not related to titles or placements? So what is one goal? Then it can't just be like, I want to qualify, because sometimes that's out of your control. So what is one thing? And a lot of them are going towards like, okay, I want to watch my dogs changes a behavior and respond, or I'm going to trust the first time that they have alerted because I've looked at my videos and they're doing that. And so what I'm finding is a lot of my students are thinking of those moments, but what about putting it on a post-it on your driver's steering wheel? So as you're sitting in your vehicle and you've got those initial nerves, you can look down and go, okay, that is my goal. Exactly. Not about the cue of the first search. Right. Okay, what is my goal for this first search? And having it on a post-it note, big pink post-it note or yellow or whatever, um, on your driver's wheel, it kind of triggers something and it can help reframe your brain a little bit.
SPEAKER_00:Well, and especially if so, some of those first um goals that we talk about, which is oh, I just want a title. I also think the one of I want no no's and I want no missed hives are also based on results. So to me, those are not what we're talking about here. We're what we're talking about here would be the observational pieces that you can and and or maybe it's even a feeling. Um I want to feel confident when I say find it to my dog that my dog is engaged with me, right? So so what am I gonna do with that last gate? And that was a really big goal for me for many of our first uh trials because I have a I have I did a toy reward long enough that I had a very high-aroused border collie going, right? So my goal was well, I'd like to have focus on me. Well, what I finally realized was I got better focus with the sit and the treat than I did with the toy and trying to play Tug going on before because that was his high arousal piece right there. So maybe, right? And um Crystal Wing actually has a a great podcast up on her new um oh and I'm gonna forget it, her podcast forum, which I think is top, what is it? Top something. I can't remember. Oh yeah. So I'll look it up. But and what she's talking about is research that came out of um one of the universities that talked about um the the three doing three steps to gain engagement with your dog. And and so that ended up being what I took, not from her, but I just heard it recently and it kind of gelled these same things that I've been doing. Um that was how do I get my dog to engage with me? I think for a long time we always thought, oh my gosh, I don't want to be rewarding my dog at that last gate, or even as soon as I buckle him up at my truck and he gets out, give him a treat, get him to sit to look at me, because that's engagement with me as a handler might make him dependent upon me as a handler. Now are we gonna know what to do when we go to search? What I can now tell you is that that's an important part right there for you to have to be telling the dog, communicating to the dog that this is indeed a team between you and the dog. And that, yeah, right, and that with adequate um search and find adequate odor drive for your trial experience, the dog isn't just gonna get to the start line and go, I don't know what to do, you gave me a treat back at the truck. Yeah, yeah, right? Just doing those kinds of things and and try it in training so that if you're going into a class, as soon as you get them out of the crate, they sit, you give them a couple treats. Maybe you walk to the front door, you have them sit again, you give them a couple treats. Because how many times do we go into class with our dog, and we are the kite at the end of that string up in the air, and our dog is just yanking us into the search area because there's so much, yeah, there's no hold, there's no nothing, right? Yeah, yeah. So I think that can be one of the things is find something where uh whether it's and in this case they did a study where the dog actually doing a weave between the legs, yeah, right? And I think they also did a pause up on an arm. And then there was one more. So there are three pieces that they were um doing to crank down the arousal, if you will. Yeah. Crank up the focus before they release the dog to do the thing.
SPEAKER_01:A behavior, yeah. Right?
SPEAKER_00:Whatever it was. And I think that that can still pretend. I think that sometimes because we don't know what we don't know with nose work, because literally we don't, um, that we become very nervous about um well, literally, like the first time I did my ORT with Digger down in Denver at Dana Zinn's, in the practice boxes, I went, Oh my god, do we know what we're doing? Oh, wait, do you know what you're doing? I have no idea what we're doing. So just go find the box, right? Yeah. And he he and he just blew right over top of the practice box.
SPEAKER_01:Right. And then we get stressed.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Oh, I was like, oh my God, now we don't know what we're doing. That is what you're doing. Am I supposed to go over there and just reward him and show him what right? No. So that can be another thing, is is whatever your ritual is, make it a ritual also for that dog. Because here's a really good example. Yeah. Digger was not really interested in, he was a border collie as well, and he was already so anticipatory about the search, he he did not pay any never mind to the practice boxes. Right. So then I was kind of of the mindset, oh my god, he doesn't know why we're here, there's odor, and he's not going to it, right? But he didn't care about them. He didn't care. To him, that was not Zeke, on the other hand, he will pull me from the truck if he's gonna go, if he's anywhere even close on a pathway to a container that has odor in it, he's going to it. So rather than me say, no, that makes me nervous, you can't out, right? Go with the clarity for the dog. So that can be an initial first piece. So I've just gotten my dog all ready to go, my little ritual of getting my treats together, my timer together, my leash together. Now we're gonna start walking into the first search, and now I gotta think, okay, what's my dog's clarity going into the search? Right?
SPEAKER_01:So before we dive into that, one thing that I've noticed is the first search of the day. I seem to have way too much time often to get everything in order. But what I find is sometimes I'm more focused on getting the camera on, getting my timer going, that it's taking away and I'm not in like the the feel of the day yet. And so I do actually need to spend more time on watching my dog and connecting in those first few seconds that I've stopped doing a camera and if and the timer, maybe I'll make sure that I've got the timing based so that I can start it way before I actually cross the line because I've lost some of that focus in me for that first search because it does require a lot more from me in that first search until we get a groove and then we're going for the day and then we're okay. But I'm finding that first search is I'm out, I'm not doing the camera. And maybe I'm uh like I'd like to see the video later, but in the moment it's been more important to not do the video later in the day. It seems to be just fine because I've got the flow of everything a little bit better.
SPEAKER_00:Well, and some of that can be the whole like how much pressure do you put on yourself? God, we and I said to Alex, we're really gonna talk about first search for an hour, and now I'm just seeing how voluminous it really is. But so am I putting pressure on myself just getting to the trial site right now? Oh my goodness, where am I gonna park? Yes, where am I gonna park? And um, I had a gal who showed up actually at the trial site at seven o'clock, just as we were arriving, right? And said, Yeah, oh, but I have to get everything ready. And I said, Well, I'm sorry, I'm gonna have to have you leave and come back because there's reasons why we can't have our handlers here this early. Um but it's that whole piece of, you know, how do I get there? Because you just hit a whole bunch of pieces, right? Which was um, okay, so the thing that we're all shooting for is to get our vehicle, if you will, set up, right? So whether it's that shade cloth on there, whatever it is that makes us happy during the day, maybe I'm one of those who wants to drape the illuminate off the back of my car, and I have a chair that I sit in and blah, blah, blah. So I want to get all those things done, right?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:But my first pressure point is the briefing. Yeah. Might be restrooms. It might be restrooms, though. I might have the best of that idea. For most people, it is. Because I gotta find a restroom. Yeah, that's the first thing, right? I gotta get to the restroom. Then when I come out, then I can set up my vehicle. But what's pushing me to set up my vehicle either hurriedly or I'm taking my time is one, how complex is it? Two, when's the briefing? And how how what's my time frame for the briefing? And then where am I in the running order? Because if that first search, oh my gosh, if I'm already, you know, dog one, two, three, or we're breaking it in half and maybe it's a 30 people 30 handlers, and now I'm 15, 16, or 17, I'm already. And now you're first. I'm already going, holy buckets, I gotta be ready to be one of the first teams, right? Has my dog potty? Do I have my dog ready? Am I ready? So all of these things are creeping in. And so Alex makes a very good point, which is until I have enough experience, because one of my phrases that I say about our dogs is your job is to provide your dog with an opportunity to experience, experience first, from that experience, the dog will learn. The same thing applies to you. That you're right, that that those first times you go to trial, there it's to provide you with an opportunity to experience getting ready. All of that's kind of one of the reasons why I have an ORT, right? Yeah, yeah. So maybe for one of your classes, you suggest everybody, hey, let's have class or even just a get-together at the park, and we're gonna we're gonna arrive at two o'clock. We're gonna be ready for um us getting together and discussing what we're gonna do for hides at 2 30. And between 2 and 2 30, you're gonna set your car up just like you would at trial, right? You're gonna get all your gear out, get it on, just go through those motions so that it becomes no different than when we're driving and we know the route so well that we forget that we drove past the Starbucks because it's there and we see it every day and it's no longer really a big deal of where right? That's how that's the the that's the Rhythm that you want to have with it. It's just like driving the car. You just get in, you push the button, turn your key, right? Release the brain.
SPEAKER_01:I've been surprised, if maybe is a good word, of how many of my students, because I teach out of my home, and so there's parking along the street. Everybody creates out of their vehicles, kind of the same as um a trial might be a situation. I am surprised at how few people put, I don't even know if anybody does, puts a luminette on their car. So few people like really set up their cells like they would for trial, even though the dogs are created out of their vehicle like they would for your trial, but all the rest of it's not being done, even though they're there for an hour, even though it might be just as hot or whatever, but very few people are doing it. And then when you get to a trial, you're not in that habit. Versus, I've always got aluminum in my car, and almost every time I just throw it in my car. Right. Um, so it becomes a habit anytime that I'm working out of my car, that that is part of the thing. And it takes me no time, it's no stress, it just happens fast and easy. And so I think taking that opportunity in your class, if you're creating out of a vehicle, or if you have a lot of trials and you're creating indoors, that you're doing the same things in classes, that you're able to repeat those same things for yourself and your dog, then it doesn't feel weird.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_01:Um, and you're not the novelty is what stresses us out. If we look at why first searches are struggles for us, it's because of novelty, right? We haven't been to that trial site before, we haven't been with that club before or that host. Um, maybe we're around all new people, maybe the CO or the judges are new to us.
SPEAKER_00:Maybe we haven't tried in six months, we haven't been to a trial to even compete for several months, right? So this is the first one of the season or first one we were able to get into, all those kinds of things, right?
SPEAKER_01:So reducing as much novelty as possible. Our brains, so like Steve Jobs, he was like one of the famous things that I remember is that he always had the same outfit. And that was kind of a recommendation is that you have one less thing that your brain has to worry about. Personally, that's not something I want to do, but it's removing a little bit of novelty from your day. Well, and then you don't have to take cranking.
SPEAKER_00:It's the concept, right? So, and I I really kind of talk a lot about this with regard to the booties. This is kind of one of my favorite topics of don't decide for your dog on trial day whether the dog's gonna wear booties or not. Um if you if your dog can tolerate wearing booties for every search, put them on, and even if you have to put them on and take them off, put them on for every search, right? So that that's one thing that you're just removing from your list of having to decide. But going back to your concept about the luminette, here's here's really something interesting that it took me years, years to decide this. When Kathy Vito and I first started trialing back in 2012, we were very um, oh, what do I want to call it? We were very elaborate, very elaborate about our whole setup. Oh my gosh, yeah. We had a tent. The tent went off of the back end of the Subaru. The tent then became one of those, and it wasn't like a pop-up that happened easily. It was right, it was you had to put the tent poles in, all this stuff. Yeah, then we realized how challenging that was. So we really weren't ready for our first searches. Then it slowly became, slowly became, slowly became. Now it really is just the I have a windshield um thing that I put in, right? And then I throw the illuminate up over the truck and get the magnets and and set it, you know, and get it down. And it's a 50-50, even if I have a chair. Yes, exactly. But some people that the chair might be hugely important because they're they like to sit out and read the book or whatever they're gonna do. Yeah, I like to be in my vehicle with my doors shut, like solitude. I find I, you know, I kind of tried to graduate over to hanging out with the crew, you know, other folks and sitting in a chair and conversing. And I did poorly, I not poorly, but I didn't do as well at those trials with all the voices in my head as I did when I could create some solitude for myself.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So and I found sitting, so I like to sit on the back bumper and I've got a crate that opens through the back. And so if I sit at the back bumper, I'm connecting with my dog a little bit more, too. Yeah. So I'm finding that my dog's a little more connected with me versus if I'm away. Doesn't mean I always get that opportunity. If I'm judging AKC and competing at that same trial, I might only get like that second. I've set up a search, maybe I can grab them to do demo before I have to run them in something else. Or maybe they're running very first thing or the very end of the day. And so that means I don't see them, I don't get to connect with them very much. And that is a little bit of a detriment. And my first search of the day might not be till 3 p.m.
SPEAKER_00:No, I have to yeah, and I have talked to a couple who would be on the flip side, which is um so the that the presence of the handler too close to their dog creates this crazy arousal for their dog and just makes them nervous, right? So they're almost better off if they get the Illuminate on there, kind of try to take care of the line of sight of the dog being able to see out, right? Even if it's the back end is opened against a hillside or something, and then they go sit out front or somewhere, right? That's not direct, and then the dog will relax and lay down and do their thing, right? Yeah, so it may even be that, right? So I think that some of what we've already covered is when we talk about the ritual or the habit, right? You want to get it so that it becomes a zen piece, it's not chaos, right? That you've um done it enough times, it's just like putting your shoes on in the morning. Fluent. Right.
SPEAKER_01:So we're moving to the point of fluency, fluency meaning you don't have active thought on how to make it happen. Like you're just thinking enough to make it work, but it's not a chore.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Yeah, yep. And then there's nothing worse than when one of those pieces isn't there, right? Oh my god, I brought the wrong leash. Oh my god, I can't believe I forgot the harness. Oh my gosh, I can't believe I forgot the streets.
SPEAKER_01:Then do we need rituals at home before we leave?
SPEAKER_00:Right. Whether it's a checklist or a bag or if you're really good at that, right? Or it may be the bag piece. Maybe all my stuff is gonna go in this one place. Right. That one thing goes in the car.
SPEAKER_01:That's me, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and mine actually just lives in the truck. Yeah, right? All of my pieces just live in the truck. There's no reason, aside from me remembering to bring the cheese, right? Which when I started out with toy, the toy was always there too. I didn't even have to remember to bring food. Yeah, right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Now I have to remember to bring the food. A little off topic, but maybe there's some ideas. Maybe this is good for our Facebook page for canine scent fix. Um, so I've been traumatized by cheese this fall. Uh I ended up Traumatized. Yes. This is a word she chose. Oh my gosh. Traumatized. So I gave string cheese uh to George as a reward. It's a nice, easy treat. Normally I have no problems, and uh used it for agility, and then I used it for a scent work trial or confirmation, I can't remember. Well, we had really bad um diarrhea diarrhea, right? And so I'm like, oh maybe it was that one time, maybe it's just him, I don't know. And then the next week I didn't throw out the bag of cheese, so it was a different stick in the same package. Canna got really sick, and so then I was dealing with both dogs and I got them kind of fixed up. It was good, good thing I didn't give any to the puppy. And then I had one more occasion where I gave it again like two weeks later, and it was again, and it was from a different bag. But what I've been learning is there was a listeria outbreak this fall with cheese. And so, because I gave from a totally different store, totally different brand, and it ended up with the same thing. So I don't know if my dogs are triggered, their stomachs can't deal with it. So now I'm stuck with needing a new treat that is low fat, easy to give, not super dry. And now I'm like, I don't know what to do.
SPEAKER_00:Right. An important thing, right? Because that's that kind of thing that sneaks in. You were all ready, you had your whole ritual, you had all your habits formed well, you had your treats together, and maybe it's it's a two-day trial, and the dog, right now, or the night before you gave them that, and now they got diarrhea or whatever. So I think on some of those days, you almost have to decide what's the benefit of being there versus right, versus saying, okay, yikes, we may have to um leave early or certainly get them some emodium or something right away so that I can take care of my dog first.
SPEAKER_01:I've done that. I tried using steak for a summit, a gunnison. I was like, oh yeah, we'll do steak. Everybody else use it, it's so high value, it would be great. Yeah, like first day was fine, second day, diarrhea, and I had to go back in the middle of the day to go grab slippery um after my one search.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, okay. So I would say, yeah, your dogs are gonna be right. Yeah. So but you can also have that dog that you swear has an iron stomach, and and then something happens. And and I thought she did, but yeah, or yourself, right? Yeah, yeah, exactly. So one of the things, so I have to remember, believe this or not, I have to remember to pack something to eat. Yeah breakfast, like a breakfast bar. But then not only is it packed, I have to remember to eat it. Eat it, yeah, totally and eat it because I get so caught up in the first search syndrome. Actually, it's success. I get so caught up in my first search success that I literally uh I had a trial out in Missouri, this was way back with Digger at NW3, and I had two um triple shot espresso from two caramel macchiatos with three with triple shots, two of them. Um forgot to eat my breakfast bar at any food at all. And we faltzed out in like nine seconds in the first search. Oh, and Gail Creek said to me, What were you thinking? And I go, Well, I don't know. And she said, Have you eaten anything? Because you could just see me. I was less like, as well, this is my dog. And I said, Oh, I forgot to do that, right? Yeah, so for me, eating is a big thing because it's gonna balance my blood sugar, amongst other things. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And not having a lot of caffeine is probably helpful as well. Also, so having some.
SPEAKER_01:If you're used to having caffeine, yes, and then you're like, Oh, I'll have it after my first search, yeah, then your body's not quite right and you might end up with a headache at the end of the day. Yeah, so it's just figuring that detail. I I've done, I've switched to a lot of like juice, like a green juice or something like that, where I can pack it, and I know it's got some fiber and some of the sugars that I need. And so that's typically what I have either before that search or right after that first search. Right. Maybe I should have more.
SPEAKER_00:So, what are some of the okay? So, we've gotten, let's let's do the progress here. So, we we have our kind of a ritual from training of how to set up my vehicle, how to get my dog um dressed, how to get myself dressed, uh, and it's rehearsed and fluid. It's rehearsed and fluid. I'm not, you know, we'll still always do that. Do I want to go on lead or off-leash? On lead or off leash? Um, I'd suggest in so many ways, do what you do most if you have the option to go on or off, because then you can always either re-hook them or unhook them. Um I wouldn't like try not to listen to everybody else who's in the parking lot who looks at a cluttered area and goes, Oh my god, I'm going off-leash. And you go on leash every time with your dog, no matter what. Start on leash, do what's going to make you feel comfortable. Um, and then you can always switch it. So then it's getting from there. Let's go from there. I left my vehicle, and I'm gonna get to my last gate before my search. We're only gonna talk about those, those pieces there, because to me, so much everything that you just did, every confidence you just had stepping out of your car can kind of crumble, or you get overexcited yourself. And now you're going in with no handler brain. Not only does your dog maybe not have a brain, but you don't have a brain either. So, what are some of the tips and tricks we can do from the time that we leave, leave the parking lot, right? On our way to the search area.
SPEAKER_01:I think first thing is timing, is understanding at what point do you need to actually take your dog out. I think each dog's a little bit different. If you take, like if I took Tana out too early, she'd be way too high, right? Like she just starts ramping up and up and up the longer she's out of her crate. Versus George, he's frantic in the crate once he sees everything get on and he needs to come out and lay down and just be stationary beside me and he can lower him his arousal. So I think knowing timing is gonna be a piece, but then know how many stations you have to get to there, because maybe how you structure that can change. So for me, if I especially like if I'm judging at Casey, frequently I don't have staging. It's going from vehicle into search, put the dog back up and then go judge. Um, so in those kind of situations, I don't get to practice some of that time in between, which is really important for some dogs like George. He needs that time to sit and be stuck at a staging to bring his arousal level a little bit more level where you can say, Okay, we're playing a game together. I'm not just super excited. Um, for him, it didn't work so well, and so I'm having to build that into how I interact with him. Um, and so at each station, he does a downstay with a toy in between his legs, and he knows that he gets to stay in that position, and then maybe we do some healing because that really engages his brain. So he's doing either sidesteps or sits and stands and walks with me, position changes. And so having that kind of activity allows him to come into a more regulated state. So then when he goes into his search, he's thinking doing something like that with Tana is like asking for the prime event before we even go into the search, and it doesn't work for her. She just needs some cookies and some touching and maybe a stationary position between my legs, a squish, and then we go in. I have no clue what I'm gonna get with Vespa. Uh, right now she seems to settle when I pick her up. So am I stuck picking her up in between all my searches and then put her down to search? I don't know. Um, but I think all that time of the stations really does matter.
SPEAKER_00:I totally agree. And how many we have and trying not to feel like, oh my gosh, what's wrong with this host that we're gonna have three wait stations, three gates going in. Can't you figure it out another way? Also knowing what my what, and this might be more handler and who I am more than my dog, but I'm not much of a talker. Like when I'm going in, I really want to be focusing on my dog. And but there's other people who absolutely love having the conversation of who their dog is and how long they've had him and all that sort of stuff. Right. I did find the reference from uh Crystal Wing. Her um her podcast is um On Top, What's On Top. And this one is actually the arousal movement and connection with dogs. And she's talking about a study that was done about what's called canemetrics, and it's really working on just getting some warm-up um exercises like leg weaves, paws up, and a bow. And she uses those three kind of in success in succession to gain that connection between the handler and the dog, right? Get the dogs to the dog's thinking, and these are things that you've trained before you get to that point. But check that out. That's a it's a great little um podcast that she has on those topics, and I think that really what we're looking for is what works for this handler and this dog. So it might even be so for say, for instance, you have a very calm dog and your dog is just it seems so happy as a clam just to go to the chair while you're in that gate. Yep, you're sitting down or the dog's laying down, and they just seem to be chill, right? Right. Um, so then just figure out is that transferring to the start line? So when you get to the start line, does the dog have that switch that you can then turn on? Or are some of these things we're suggesting that we're typically using for the aroused dog to bring them down?
SPEAKER_01:Right.
SPEAKER_00:Is that something we can use to get the calmer dog, right? Or the resting dog. I like to say resting better than calm, right? Because we don't know if they're calm or not, right?
SPEAKER_01:They could be like what if they are how do we sink down out of that stress, whether it's your stress or yes, yes, face it, exactly whatever, right? And they're sniffing the floor because they're stressed and it's a release for them. So can these games like I like Leslie McDevitt's kind of pattern games? Yes, there's a lot of different options through there, but those kind of games can really help a dog like that to come into a nice, steady, focused state as well.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So I think you have to figure out kind of what works for you, what works for your dog. Now, if doing any of that is too stressful on you, oh my God, I can't remember what game I'm supposed to play, oh la, then don't do it, right? But you can easily, and I know this goes against a lot of what a lot of people might feel, you could even constant feed, right? You could even have those different treats if your dog's really food-driven, and the whole concept here is to keep your dog engaged with you rather than sniffing the ground. Because to me, if the dog is sniffing the ground, they're sniffing it either because it's a distraction, there are other dogs present, um, but it's certainly not focused on birch anus or clove at that point in time or any other essential oils that you will be searching for, and it's not engaging with you, the handler, right? Yeah. So already I've got a waiting period there where we're moving in separate directions. And again, I'm gonna get to this start line and I'm gonna say, here's my search switch. Go find, oh geez, why why are you not turning on, right? Um, when we get to the start line. So I really think that figuring out what are some of those pieces between, because and again, in training and especially in classes, in-person classes, and even when even when we're doing online, online probably even more so, right? Because I'm taking a video of it and I'm just gonna go get my dog. I already set my hide, I'm just gonna and I plow right in, and all I'm really interested in is the footage that happens while my dog's searching, and I'm not doing this piece needs to be practiced. Yes, it has to be. It needs to be like go to the park and do it. Yes. So a really good example is like whatever sport maybe you like to do. Like even if you like to ride a bike, right? And you do like trail riding or whatever, um, there's that piece that's gonna take you from the car to getting on the bike to taking off. If you're a runner, there's that piece that's getting out of the car, getting all ready, maybe walking up to where the trail begins and starting to run. Right. Um it's that we're talking about that piece that goes in between. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And this sport creates a stationary. In between. Yes. Right. And I don't think we're practicing that. No. The majority of the time you're stuck for two minutes, maybe. Yeah. Ten minutes, maybe. Right. And if we're not practicing on our dogs, especially dogs that get distracted because you're stuck in one position or they ramp up an arousal. Right. So if we are not practicing it with those dogs, how are we supposed to expect that they can go into a search focused if they can't even do it because we never do it?
SPEAKER_00:Well, and here's another interesting piece that you could have multi-sport dogs who, in their other sport, they really don't wait. Right. Okay. So a good example is agility. Let's just I'll just pick on agility. Okay. Um, or any other even the dock diving, dock diving. I'm standing in a line of other dogs, and everybody's ramped up. But they can be crazy. Right? Everybody's ramped up. Um for fly ball, holy buckets. Talk about high arousal, right? So and it's not that any of those are bad. That's not what Alex or I are alluding to. It's just recognizing that for your dog, the clarity of engaging with you at that moment in time may need more structure. It may need more specific um routine because we need more brain work. Yeah. It's not get the thinking dog from the time you leave the vehicle until the time you arrive at your start line.
SPEAKER_01:Or teach them how to be in that status, that that weight, right? Like George, I'm not asking for thinking, I'm asking for control and him to bring himself back into control because he's probably not the instant he comes out of this crate.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_01:And so having maybe, hey, I just broke apart a little piece there. Maybe I can split out that behavior. But I want my dog to be in a like a stationary. Okay, I know I'm on standby and I'm going to create that start. So could we at a park? Okay, I've got a park near my house. There's a whole bunch of like stadium seating around baseball and then like open park space. There's a lot of dogs around. Okay, so if I go in, I set a timer, I'm sitting for three minutes, and then I have two cones laid out for my start line. And what if my hide is like literally 10 feet in front of me in a white box? Like, can we just prime them to go from the stationary position to odor? Yes. And that's all I want is that threshold hide. Maybe it's even like four feet away from the start, two feet away from the start, so that we can go in and prime them into this thought process of coming from this status of like you are stuck waiting, bored, and then we go in and we find a hide, a huge party, and we go back to our car.
SPEAKER_00:And you just hit a segue that I just wanted to talk about too, is now that we've gotten through the gates, now I'm at the start line. How do I get to the start line so that I feel like I have a forward-focused dog? By forward, I don't necessarily mean I'm going to push my dog's nose until it's pointing in what I think is a forward direction. I just mean that we're gonna move forward. The dog's gonna move forward first, right? So it's a lot like, and I actually did it and trained some of it with an agility jump because I have a dog who is that's such high value. An agility jump is such high value. So I did it outside of nose work first, right? Yeah, where I just put the jump there, held him, and as soon as he was calm, then I said forward, and I let go of the heart of his collar. He jumped over, came back. Then I um slowly cued it to focus, focus. And when he would focus and point right at it, I would let go, right? Right. And it's not because I'm here, let me just finish this real quick. It's not because I'm looking for that exact thing to happen in nose work. I have a border collie who needed context. Then I put the box out there just like Alex suggested. And now I'm holding him, and I call it start line release, so that I'm getting over the fact of those, I'm not setting out two cones and saying you must release here. It's wherever I release and give the cue of find it or search or whatever, Google, whatever your cue is, that I'm asking for that. I don't know, is it a millisecond of the context? Forward, yeah. If forward, I'm gonna move forward in the search. And even if my dog is working odor 20 feet back, which I they have to be, they have to be in some manner or another. Um, and I want to get to the start line or go through my my method is to go through the start line. I want to look at it in terms of do I have chaos happening at my release at the start line? Or so do I need more structure for myself and my dog? Or do I need more um enthusiasm, right? Totally. Yeah, yeah. So you still have to measure it by that dog and that handler, right? Totally. Yeah. Because the other piece is with Zeke, for a long time, even after I do that, we were doing a lot of training um after class, and this is after teaching elite and summit handlers, lots of odor out there, and we're doing NW3, and I'm letting go, and he is doing laps. Now I got happy feet off leash, so that becomes my next piece. Yeah, for my first search. How can I get right? So for us, it turned out to be on leash. On leash is what gets him to focus. Right? And so I come in on leash, and then at least if I get even to the first hide, and I feel like, oh gosh, let's let him have some freedom, and I unhook it, I get a lot less over-enthusiastic lack.
SPEAKER_01:Just running, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Where it takes the dog, like you were saying, dogs are coming into the search, and there's this whole time period, and it's not we do have a timed event. We're not saying we're anti-joy for the dog to go and just be themselves. We're just saying that if we find that at that is not an effective and efficient way for us to release our dog into a search, let's bring some structure with it.
SPEAKER_01:Sure. Yep. So how I've trained, because you were using a jump with Z, I've trained some of that start, because I've already done it, Vespa. And that's part of my routine at that start line is stillness. So a holding collar, holding harness, holding just on the leash, just kind of above. But I start it with just toss treat that they can see four feet in front of them. And when I get some stillness, instead of I want to get it, I want to get it, and they get a little stillness, and then you release them. And then you can build that up into maybe that treat rolls where they can't see it or it's now hidden out of that space. But it starts to become a nice cue where you're also building that forward focus, you're building that attention to the environment. And I like to call it search focus versus handler focus, looking at me. Yes, right? The sit look at me sometimes can work for a high dry dog, especially dogs who have trained in hunting, but not every dog because I find they just then when you release them, they just turn around and face you or they try and find something offering to do a behavior on. But it's also not environmental focus because I consider a dog that's looking out to scan the environment to make sure it's safe and that there isn't something on the other side of the fence or somebody coming through the door, that's environmental focus. They're not going in to search. So we need to make sure that the dog, when you release them, is going to hunt, right? That's what we're aiming for for our target odor. And I think that is the hardest thing, and we have to build that into our behavior at that start line and think about that instead of walking into the search. Because if you can trust your dog is going to work right away, walking into the search, go for it. But I find a lot of dogs aren't.
SPEAKER_00:Well, and I think that some of that again is the hand, what's gonna work for you and for the dog, right? So if you have this challenging dog that's pulling you, right? Um, like you know, some of our labs that are 130 pounds and they are motated.
SPEAKER_01:I hope it's not 130 pounds.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that is kind of heavy. Let's say 80. 80. Right? But they're pulling you, and so part of your routine has been at the start line to sit and get them to, which is fine. We're not saying that there's anything wrong with that at all. And then they do get the piece of as soon as you say find it, search, whatever it is, they come from that respite, that little piece of of okay, I'm here with you, and take off doing what they should do. And a good way to teach that, um, what Alex was talking about, that impulse control, is even before you even get the toss, is the sitting down with a treat between their paws. Can they do that impulse control, right? And you start with, you know, even the one in your hand. Can they write? Can you hold a treat in your hand and have your dog not snatch it out of your hand until they can calmly just sit there and then you open your hand? So it's the whether it's a touch or yes or get it or leave it, whatever works in your brain in terms of dog training, that is huge. And that piece can help so much on your way to the start line in a search. If nothing else, get your dog in a down, right? And either put their toy or their food, a treat, right in front of their paws, where they do that whole stare at it for a while till you say yes, right? Right. And that can really help with that structure. Because I really think that's what they're looking for. That we get them all excited, we're excited, we're nervous, they're nervous. Uh, we all love it. And you know, especially once you get hooked on, you know, understanding some of the pieces of a really fun search. Um, we come with expectations that that's gonna happen again, it's gonna happen right now.
SPEAKER_01:Right. So yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Now, here's a piece that really helped me kind of leave some of the jitters of performance um out of this picture and especially out of my first search. When I was able to say that my competition is actually the odor and my search, yeah, it's not who's in the parking lot, it's not the title, because again, that's a result, right? I need to stay in the moment with my dog. So once I started to do that and really focus on the first observations of my dog after they leave that start line, right? Yeah, maybe even before that really helped me draw back what is my first search success. One of my first search successes is can I observe my dog coming across the start line with odor interest? And do I recognize and have as much odor importance as my dog has as to where they go first?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's it.
SPEAKER_00:Just where they go first.
SPEAKER_01:It's amazing the direction the dog takes off the start line, that initial direction, like three quarters of the time, it's towards a hide. It's huge, it's huge. Now, granted, know the hide, and then they go, I don't quite get it.
SPEAKER_00:And then they have to measure it, right? And then they start to measure it so they may move off, but you need to trust that that was important for the dog at that moment in time. And if it and if it turns out to have been a total distraction, they went to people, blah, blah, blah. Well, that's a training issue. Let's get back to training so we can figure out odor dry for your dog, so your dog is enjoying the search. Because when we're talking about training for trial, we are talking about training to find source. Search to find source. So it's not just go out and search in this wonderful environment that, oh, by the way, also has squirrels and rabbits and other dogs, and maybe there might be four hundred stuff too. So maybe just go search for all of that. Forget about you know the source that we're asking you to find. Um, and so if you're kind of falling into that distraction zone, because and we're included in that distraction zone as handlers, even my leash is a distraction, right?
SPEAKER_01:Um, I was thinking about that. The leash is the big case in there. Like if you are not fluent with leash management and you're you just feel like you're you're stressed about it, you're cluttered with it, whatever it might be, it will eat into that first search because you haven't gotten the feel for the day. Um, so like going into and actually putting the time into some leash work, so working it without a dog, working it while they're going for a walk at the park, like use your long line and practice with it as much as possible. Because I find people at the top level are still like a little like unfamiliar or they're trying a new leash out and they go, I don't know how it works, but somebody recommended it. And if it's not fluent, you're thinking about it and it takes attention away.
SPEAKER_00:And you're distracted. Now we have handboard distraction. We are no longer paying attention to our dog working odor. And then how many times, and and this is so habitual, right? So the leash happens to go underneath your dog's leg, and can you even even comprehend the search at that point in time? No, you're like constantly trying to okay, how am I gonna get it out from underneath there? And here's the thing your dog doesn't care.
SPEAKER_01:No, because they're still searching, don't care. So don't fix it because frequently the person that wants to fix it fixes it while their dog is sourcing the hide and push their dog off. Yep. Or so take the moment after the hide has been found to fix it and give the cookie. Yep. Uh don't do it while they're working, and you're not gonna be.
SPEAKER_00:Even because they're slowing down and that's all you're doing. And if you have that dog that wraps your leash no matter what, you almost have to just drop it, right? Just drop it and hopefully it'll become untangled without like drawing chairs across the search area. Oh, I know, that sort of thing. Um, right.
SPEAKER_01:I have found that a little bit of a straighter line between you and your dog, so not the traditional gentle way, but a little bit of a straighter line between you and your dog avoids all of those problems, especially if your dog has a tail that might wrap in it. Because I find that, especially with poodle people, like the dog's tail. I've even recommended one of my students like, can you shave the tail? The straight line allows the tail to hit it and go to the other side, versus if it's looped, it gets wrapped up.
SPEAKER_00:It's taut, is what I call it, right? It's just like when we were kids and we played telephone with the with the cups, with the straight. Not pulling, right? You don't just straight. It's just straight. And I find that has worked so much better. I think it's a huge connection for my dog, actually. He now knows where I am, and I don't get, you know, when I start to get the look backs, it's usually for different for a different reason now, right? Right, rather than just kind of being a constant attempt to do that. Totally agree. So yeah, yeah. Wow, guys. So we actually did a really good job of an hour and five minutes that first search or so talking about that first search. So ready, set, go, first search success. So there's some tips on all the way from you know getting ready for trial in 2026 and trying to find some training tools that you can now put in, right, that aren't high placement related. No, it's not really odor related, it's all this other stuff that we carry in this bag. Yeah, that we carry in this bag, and we put in our shopping cart, and we take to trial with us. And so let's let's start getting those things out and figuring out how to make it just like as a kid when you were jumping rope, right? You didn't have to look where the rope was. It just right, riding a bike, it feels all natural. Same with driving a car, right? Yeah, all those things. Exactly. You can you can turn your blinker on and turn and probably not even consciously have to say, Oh, I have to take one hand here, one hand here, one hand here. Exactly. Flip right, it all is those pieces that we now have muscle memory to do. So, yeah. So super fun. Thanks for for jumping in on this and coming up with a fun topic. That was really fun. I thought, oh, there's no way we're gonna talk about this, right?
SPEAKER_01:We got it.
SPEAKER_00:What are we gonna do at at to start our first search?
SPEAKER_01:Because we are in this episode of the year. What is one goal for you for 2026, dog related?
SPEAKER_00:So um, yeah, we're gonna um so my biggest odor-related goal is myself understanding elevation, right?
SPEAKER_01:So that was mine last year.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, under so I got elevation, what I don't really feel that I have yet is calling the high hide. So I've got to start with feeling like I'm getting that. I don't know if it's an extra communication piece or what I need. What I'm finding from Zeke is because even at NW1, he's what I would call a pop and go dog, right? So he comes into that odor picture, and I can even get him to totally touch nose on source and then take off.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_00:So that's kind of what I feel like he's doing with the high hide picture, yeah, right? Because it's we're right at the cusp of a lead into summit, so it's gonna be a much broader picture, yeah. Right? Yeah, so it's recognizing that it's an elevated high. Then how do we communicate? Has he communicated to me that he's as close to that high hide as he can get? And can I call it? So that's kind of I would love to just that one little thing of get because you can actually do quite well at trials, guys. Never call it high hide. Totally never quillate it, which is me. I don't think people realize that. No, if there's if there's one hide that gets left or missed, and I still do exceedingly well, um, it's that that high hide, and it's not because I'm chicken, I think it's mostly because um they're typically in other odor pools with other hides. So given the amount of time we have, I get the other hides, and I'm just not coming back around to committing myself because um I feel pretty good about our ground hides, but those high hides, dang. So we've been really working on them and trying to come up with you know that commitment from the dog, right? Um I think of Archer. Oh my gosh, Archer just never gives up, right? He'll he'll like jump with this hide forever. Not saying my dog has to jump, but that just that commitment to stick with that problem. Um yeah, until we solve it. How about yourself?
SPEAKER_01:Electrical Vespa. Um, you got lots of goals there. So I got like Vespa goals feel very within my wheelhouse. I've done them. We're just kind of fine-tuning to figure out how they work for her. Um, her first trial. I have her enter it at the end of January in an AKC trial just to kind of experiment, see where she's at, the novice level. What do we need to work on? I really would love to see her hit hides like right off the bat, not no extra thinking. Go in and sourcing. Right. She gets a little funny with novelty and high placement. So I just need to work on some variety there. But my big one for the year is definitely with George and working through his arousal levels. Again, still it's just how he loves life. But figuring out how to get it with a little bit more teamwork. And I feel like I was there with Tana actually at the same age. So I feel like I've been there before and it's just figuring out how to get this teamwork because his skills are really freaking awesome. It's just how to get the thought without the fight. So that's where we're coming for this year.
SPEAKER_00:For this dog. Yeah. Yeah. Well, and what's so amazing is that he's doing other things that are so specific.
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Like you can't do obedience and some of the confirmation pieces you're doing or whatever the field and the field stuff. Yes. You can't do those pieces without a specific responding dog, right? Yeah. And then he gets over into scent work and just kind of goes, yippee! Oh, he loves it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Gets out of his skin and figured it out. Like, and he's done it, right? He's found all the hides in a leak trial before. So it's not like he can't. Right. No, you're right at that cus.
SPEAKER_00:I think yeah, you're just right at that cusp.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_01:So some of it's teamwork, some of it's going to be high placement and repetition, some of it's going to be novelty and working through arousal protocols.
SPEAKER_00:Well, and then I haven't started off out of that. Yeah. And then if we're looking at results based, like how do I want to measure this? We're going to finish up on our elite um championship. Um, and I want to do that in the 80s and 90s. Because we just came off of enough trials where we were in that score zone, so it's not out of our wheelhouse, right? Yeah. It's like, no, I that's consistency for us. It's I'm not saying everybody needs to do that, but for this dog at this point in time, that's his consistency. So I want to I want to keep it. Um not necessarily just for the ribbons, but for the search, right? For that search success. Um and then I think we might dip our toe, maybe, in a summit. Yeah. Maybe not see, talk about trepidation, pressure, and talk about to first search jitters. Holy bucket. I just the first trial I have jitters, right? So I may have to like do something like okay, can can we just do dog in white one day and then FEO the next day, right? Try to figure out how to dip dip my toe into it without jumping in hook, line, and sinker, because I got it. Coming off of Elite, we have such great, I feel, confidence and skill sets. I don't want to do the same thing I did with Digger, which was so much of it being so unknown. Yeah. Huge picture being so unknown that it deflated either myself emotionally, right? Um and the dog didn't care. He was having a gas, but yeah. So I don't, it's not again that I want to absolutely say, oh, I have to title it Summit. It's that's the next level. We are we have skill sets for that level. That's what we've been working on. Um, so I just want to have some um confidence that that we can at least figure out what skill sets we've got and what ones we need to work on.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. So poor George, I think I've only got maybe four elites that I can attend this next year. Yeah. I'm hoping for a few more popping up, maybe in California, but it's just it's gonna be one of those years for him that he doesn't get trial very much, which is too bad. I feel like he's a little bit more in his prime, but it's life and he gets to play some A C. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So that's because we both have a lot going on in Millsbook, right? Between the multiple hats we wear in all the venues. Yep. So okay. Well, happy new year, everybody, and hope you enjoyed our podcast. Um, please let us know on the Facebook page or by email um what topics you might want to cover and if there's any questions or concerns you had from today's discussion. So thanks, thanks, happiness. Happy New Year.
SPEAKER_01:Me too.
