Find Your Fix- Sport Dog Scent Detection Podcast- Training Tips and More !
K9 Scent Fix—Find YOUR Fix- Sport Dog Scent Detection Podcast
JOIN THE FUN ! Canine Nose Work coaching tips and tricks to help fix your training and trial challenges with an open mindset. Offering methods and techniques that might be new to you or outside your "usual". Chatting with the experts, experienced nose work coaches and guest speakers exploring new ideas, how to use them and build solid training resources with Mountain Dogs and Release Canine.
Join us for the LIVE podcast via Zoom - watch for each LIVE podcast announcment and interact with your Hosts Jill Kovacevich from Mountain Dogs and Aleks Woodroffe from Release Canine. Email us at mtnnosework@gmail.com OR aleks.woodroffe@gmail.com WITH your Topics or Comments. We love to hear from you our K9SF Handlers !
Recorded Podcast released within 24-48 hours or during the first week of each month. Look for the Podcast posting at k9scentfix.buzzsprout.com
Find Your Fix- Sport Dog Scent Detection Podcast- Training Tips and More !
HOST SUPPORT - Hosting Smarter: Facilities, Flow, And Flexibility
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Why Hosting Is Hard And Worth It
SPEAKER_03Hey everybody, welcome to our podcast from the K9 Cent Fix Host Support Group. Um, so we wanted to get together. I've got with me um Alex Woodruff. Hey, Alex. Hello? And Jen Fleming. Say hello, Jen. Hello. And the three of us want to jump on and provide some information for you guys about um host support. So we have another podcast that talks a little bit more about training, but on this one, we really like to just jump into all those things that make um hosting um a challenge and then also really, really rewarding. So obviously, the three of us host, so um there must be something we like about it. Um, but it's it can be um kind of challenging when you get into some of the nitty-gritty. So, what we thought we'd do, we definitely want to cover. We've had on our Facebook page a number of topics that have come up. So we want to cover those. Um, but first we wanted to talk a little bit about just kind of the basics. It's been a while since we've had one of our podcasts up, so we want to make sure that we covered topics that were pertinent for you guys, um, especially our hosts that are getting uh all their planning ready for 2026. Yay! Um, so one of the things that we wanted to talk about is just those various uh challenges that come from hosting, finding the facility, facility management once you even find it. Um, we've talked a little bit in the past about submissions, so we might not cover that as much, but search area selection on day of, right? When you're doing your walkthrough with your certifying official. Um, and then how to use and reuse both facilities and search areas, because we've got some tips and tricks on how to do that. Um, and then um there's some things that were in the Facebook page. We also wanted to, you know, kind of comes up for us as a challenge, which is the accessibility considerations, um, how we uh really approach ours, I think, in terms of customer service, etc. etc. So let's um anything else you guys can think of that you want to jump in and mention at this point in time, or should we just start the conversation? I think let's dive right in. Okay. So let's start with um kind of that facility management. So um
Picking Sites And Matching Levels
SPEAKER_03this is just a scenario, right? So I've got a facility that I've used for um, you know, say it's a school or whatever, that I've used for a couple of years, and now I want to use it again in 2026. What are some of the considerations I might want to include either when I go to first do my submission into NACSW or after I get a response back from them? Um so you guys chime in on that.
SPEAKER_01I would look at what level it's been approved for in the past, what what levels you've used it for, um, in addition to, you know, of course, the the levels that you want to offer in your area for that time of year, but facility-wise, uh what has it been approved for with an ACSW in the past? Alex, what else do you look at?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I like to also look back uh because you can see as a host, any CSW host, you do get to see a list of the other trials and what have been filling in your area. So that's been a really helpful guide, as well as talking with the local other hosts, maybe within the six hours or eight hours of where I'm at, um, to try and figure out what else is being offered, and we're not trying to compete on the same weekends and things like that for people and volunteers. Uh, other things to really look at, especially if I'm looking at it for AKC, because I do host a lot of AKC trials, is what search areas are actually available. So maybe in a previous year we've used that same site and we were thinking, oh yeah, exteriors would be really fun. And when you start thinking about it and breaking it down, all you have is like a front entryway that's concrete and one bench. So it may be not applicable for all levels. And so kind of going through and figuring out what actually is uh acceptable for that. Now, NACSW is kind of nice like that because they do have an approval process, and so that can help you kind of go through some of those stages.
SPEAKER_03But even figuring that out, it's really, you know, because I think especially as you become a more seasoned host, you'd like to streamline that process, right? So you already kind of have a head an idea of, oh yes, I can do an NW1 or an NW2. But that's a really good point about like a school, because often our schools are not the greatest in terms of their exterior um uh proliferation, let's put it that way, about how many exteriors they may have available. And then if we're doing uh the lower levels, NW1, two, three, or even thinking about any element uh trials in exteriors, boy, we've got to make sure we've got a number of different areas available as opposed to reusing the same one for multiple days.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. Yes.
SPEAKER_03Are you able to reuse um an area for multiple levels at AKC? Is that something? Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Technically you can, but you can't nest a course. So, meaning you do have enough space, you can't have the exact same hide used for multiple levels, right? And so then when we start talking about removing a hide, maybe hopefully removing an object, but like exteriors can be tricky for that. So then you're putting blue tape down. A lot of judges will say no blue tape at all, and so we need new spaces, some will use some, um, or adjust their search area to work around that. So if you have a very large exterior space, then it can be subdivided a little bit more easily. But it is a consideration for sure. Or if we're just talking about the same concept, what about a huge fairgrounds and you don't really have suitable interior spaces?
NACSW vs AKC Approvals And Timelines
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Same kind of thing.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, and that's kind of an interesting conversation because um when we're talking about the difference between AKC and NACSW, I think that sometimes the hosts for NACSW, we become uh because we have such a tribe that's supporting everything we do from the the initial trial support um trial site advisory, uh, where they actually looked at the site already once before we even had our first trial there and said it will sustain trials for XYZ in terms of levels, right? Then after you're a repeat host for that site, you'll submit it, and now you get through trial site um advisory at least for them to say, Hey, I want you to do different levels this year, or what do you think of that? But once you get to your TC, which is the trial coordinator, boy, they're big help in terms of looking at it and saying, and I and I think sometimes it can feel like they won't let me do this, versus really, there's a reason for it. And so I think as hosts, we can be very proactive and really support our trial coordinators by saying, I understand that I've done this level before for this. Is there a way that I can look at this and maybe propose different areas to support the same levels?
SPEAKER_02So yeah. For example, I hosting uh in March, and so that site was only approved for one, two, three, and elite S. And I was looking at it and thinking about it. This definitely can have elite level searches. I might have to come up with one more complex area, which we were able to do, but it had to be resubmitted for site advisory, right? So that we could get it approved for the elite level as well. And so now I'm able to do it, but I can't host an NW3 at the same time because there's just not enough variety of and complexity. So we're doing an NW1 and an elite, which allows for a really simple space, really easy to do on top of the elite spaces.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Jen, would you have to chime in on that? I was just gonna mention um that typically, especially now that you're not allowed with an ACSW to submit a trial as TBD for the levels, um, it has to be those levels have to be chosen before it leaves site approval. Um, you're not gonna be working too much with your um TC to help you figure out levels. Uh your site approval person can help you work through that too. And if you say, you know, oh yes, I did do elite here the last two years, but um, you know, instead of using this space, we're gonna use this, and we're gonna, you know, here are my four planned areas. Um you will get you'll work with your site approval person to get approval to potentially do elite after that, you know, in another an additional year, excuse me. Um but it's all about like finding different spaces for the same level.
SPEAKER_03Well, and this can kind of bring us back to that timeline we should have in our head. And it seems like every year I know the timeline, I know it by heart, I've been trying you know, hosting enough. You would think I wouldn't miss a single timeline, right? In terms of my number of weeks before I submit it, and yet I do, right? It seems like every year I go, oh. But part of that too, I think, is pushed by I'm submitting and then also talking to the facility kind of at the same time as to dates. So sometimes they'll give me dates that are earlier than my submit than those number of weeks. So, Jen, you can tell us. Jen's also a trial coordinator and a trial site advisory um member. So is it 16 weeks? Is that kind of the the concept that that we should all be counting
Reusing Facilities Without Repeating Searches
SPEAKER_03on?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, 16 weeks is the minimum to submit it for trial site approval. Um, and it that is really truly to the day, uh, 16 weeks back. Like they won't accept it to be even assigned to a trial site appropriate advisor until it has been until you're um at least 16 weeks out. You can submit it six months out, that's fine, but nothing less than 16 weeks um will work.
SPEAKER_03And it's 16 weeks from my first trial day.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_01Yes, 16 weeks from your first trial day. Um, and yeah. And then the you have until 12 weeks from that first trial day to get it through that site approval process. So um, you know, keep in mind it says we'll contact you within seven to 10 business days. That doesn't mean it's going to be approved and done with trial site approval within seven to ten business days. It can take, you know, four, five, six weeks, depending on how long it takes, you know, the host to get back to us, too. So sometimes I'll ask for additional information and it takes a couple of weeks for me to hear back from someone um with that. And that's fine. But um, when your trial site appro advisor um initially reaches out to you, they'll say, Hey, here's our drop-dead date for when we have to have approval completed, because that's that 12-week deadline for submitting it and getting it over to a trial coordinator.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, that sounds good. And I and that can be helpful is to ask that date. Sorry, Alex, but to ask that date, right? So, okay, because typically it is gonna be in your email, so but maybe you didn't like look at it in all that detail. So don't worry about just emailing your your trial site advisor and saying, when do you need this done by, right? If they say I need new maps, I need new picks. And in my opinion, you're just gonna be a better prepared host if you're doing new maps every year and not relying on past maps. Now, they might be pretty much the same, but you might find that you want to switch maybe the rooms that you used for two, for the one, blah, blah, blah. So at least if you pull it up and look at it again and say, no, I'm good with that. Um, as opposed to feeling like that work's already been done, I don't want to redo it. To me, it really makes you a really refined um in the moment for this trial this year, if you're looking at your maps every year, right? And submitting them that with um updated dates on them, uh, right, and all of that. And I'll tell you, as a certifying official, I look at a lot of maps that have not been updated, right? Um, and so, and sometimes that's just because I'm ahead of the trial coordinator asking for them to be updated, right? So is that also gonna be part of this um that you can't have TBD for levels? So then are they gonna are we requesting then that the new maps for this year be done?
SPEAKER_01Or if the host so as a site of advisor, we say if the maps that you've used in the past are still still applicable, if your search areas are the same, then we don't request new and updated maps.
SPEAKER_03That makes sense though, right? It really does, in terms of why do I need to redo the work just to redo the work. What I'm suggesting is not just to be redundant, but look at it and you might find, hey, you know, and it's hard sometimes to remember what went well last year and what didn't go well in terms of flow. But you know, we've done that a lot where we go, oh my goodness, um, flow works so much better to have them park on the other side of the building.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_03Right? So maybe this year let's try that and see if if that's gonna work better, right? That kind of thing. So I just think it it's it's a good practice to just look at it and say, um, one, can I make this, you know, different for my constituency for my customers, right? Because if you make it different for them, then they're gonna go, oh, that was really fun. It wasn't the same thing we did last year, blah, blah, blah. Um, and then you'll you might find easier ways to make that site work for you.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Anything else you can think of, Alex?
SPEAKER_02Um, so something just kind of looking at if you're gonna host an AKC trial, you have 18 weeks um to get your stuff in. So it's even a little bit longer. And something we've run into in the past, especially if we're trying to host a trial in the fall using a school, is they don't have their calendars done. So we're running into a problem where we might put our date down and they are saying tentatively, I think we're okay, but you don't know for sure until August. And so if we've got an end of October trial, that could be cutting on those. But with AKC, if you've submitted that trial and then the site changes, you lose your site venue, whatever it might be, the the AKC office will work with you. So they're pretty good like that. So if you have to move your date for the following weekend, as long as it works, it's fine. And you can change your levels and what elements you're offering, and that can be adjusted up until when the premium's posted. So that does kind of make it a little bit easier on that end, but you do need to start that
When Plans Change: Space Swaps And Pivots
SPEAKER_02application process 18 weeks out, which I think it surprises some people because it's a long time out from when your trial is.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it takes a lot of forethought, that's for sure. Yeah, and any CSW also has that flexibility. The the uh impetus is that you should have good reason to ask to change it, right? Not just, I'm gonna just submit it even though I didn't even contact my facility and I don't even know if they have those data, blah, blah, blah. You know what I mean? You really shouldn't be submitting um a trial for um, what do we want to call it? A placeholder, right? Because that's when that's that was our intention of getting rid of the TBD, is that it was creating too much um cycling around the emails of have you gotten dates yet? Uh do you know what levels you're gonna have? And and we're not getting this posted within those uh four weeks, right? To from the time it starts and gets reviewed, and things were just you know kind of falling by the wayside and not giving the organization a chance to catch up with it. Because we have a lot of people who are working on these and they're not you're not full-time, right? So when you get your trial um uh trial site advisor letter, um, it often will say in it what times and dates they're available, as well as your TC. So the concept is that these people aren't working full-time kind of in the and we need to be responsive to that. What about use and reuse? Because I think that's and by that I mean not just the facility, but also the search areas themselves. So we kind of covered it a little bit with search areas, but on the facility itself, so how often can I reuse the same facility and what are my requirements um for the specific levels? So for instance, I have a tendency to do elite threes, elites and NW3 at my facilities, because those are what my uh customer bases, my handlers are going to fill um most likely, right? To fill in my area. Um, and then I submit maybe the same school for the third year, right? With the same levels, elite three and a two. So what are the what are the thoughts with that, Jenny or Jen?
SPEAKER_01I would look at search areas that you've used, just like I was saying a minute ago. Um a site approval perspective, I would say, okay, you're using the auditorium again. Tell me about that. Because auditorium, if you think about it, something like that at a high school can be broken down usually into rows of seating or stage space and backstage space. Uh, most of the schools that I use um will use a backstage space and then the stage, but we haven't used the seating at all. So that could be a whole other elite search. Um, and so if you're using, then that doesn't change your flow um most of the time, or it doesn't change it too much. Um, but if you're able to use a different um part of that same search area, um, but otherwise, like consider not always using auditorium, the gym, the cafeteria, use um hallway. In the library. That was the form, right? In the library, yes, and the cafeteria. Um, and use hallways um or banks of lockers and the hallway. Um, I have a school where we're able to close off a very long hallway that's got a lot of uh lockers on either side, and people can come in one door and out the exit that goes straight outside, and flow works beautifully with it. And then you've got a lot of complexity in that search by itself without even necessarily using a specific um
Volunteer Recruiting That Actually Works
SPEAKER_01space, but you could use multiple classrooms. Um, if you're if your space is large enough, you know, or if your school is large enough, there's a lot of opportunity.
SPEAKER_02We ended up finding, because I've got a middle school that I'm gonna use, and so the extra space that we needed to find, I needed easy flow and away from some of the other search areas. And so it's interesting and complex airflow and search area-wise, the outside steps, because most of the access to the rooms is from the outside. We're in Arizona, so it's not indoor hallways, and so as a result, you get some really kind of neat airflows. You've got some steps at each doorway and some cubbies and a lot of different pathways and stuff. So it adds a lot of complexity, especially if you're doing for a smaller search. Um, the space is quite large, but uh, it can add something to. Different too.
SPEAKER_03And so, guys, what are your feelings about should a host? Can I take the initiative and just kind of propose this right away? Because it doesn't seem to me that it would be the responsibility of either AKC as an organization or NACSW as an organization to kind of prompt that from me, right? Like and I think that's kind of where that standard thing comes from, where we kind of get stuck in this concept of, well, I can't have those levels at that site more than two years in a row because NACSW or AKC won't let me, versus saying, okay, I understand, you know, and part of that is because we really want our customer base, again, our handlers, our consist constituencies, our members of our organization, to get the the uh the opportunity to search something different rather than and especially like with NW3, right? Where you're um coming up through the ranks and you've got to do three of them. And you know, maybe because it's a school, you've been getting two, and back in the day we used to do three of them, right? Right in a row, three interiors, and we were using the same spaces every year. So you knew you were gonna get, like in Leadville, Colorado, you were gonna get the same three classrooms, yeah, right? So I think that's part as an organization why uh and even AKC has kind of uh modified this sum, not to make it more difficult to host, but rather to make it more interesting for our handlers, to make it more a product that then um captures a skill set um, you know, that isn't just a repeat of, hey, yeah, you get a mulligan. Yeah, you got a mulligan. It did take a year to bring you the mulligan, but here it is, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Unfortunately, AKC doesn't have any requirements for that. So I have been to some facilities, especially when trials can be hosted by the same club. There's no limitations, maybe twice a year, three times a year at the same site. You're searching the same spaces. And I've seen judges go into a novice search area because it's the same so novice exterior search area, place the hide in the same spot because it is the most logical spot. They don't know where the previous hide placement is. But then as a competitor, you're going in and it's like, oh, maybe that's residual. Well, no, it's just the second judge did the exact same as the first one did, but three months later. So when we're reusing spaces, which happens a lot in AKC, it's up to the hosts to talk to the judges, say, okay, what are other areas that could be a suitable for this? Like, can you look around and have your eyes?
Flow Tools: Apps, Numbers, And Backups
SPEAKER_02Because I think as hosts, they don't always compete even. And so they might not have the same eye of different kinds of search areas that are available on that trial site. So it is gonna be important to kind of work with that.
SPEAKER_03And are they are they doing that prior to trial day or are they basically having that conversation during a walkthrough?
SPEAKER_02Um, they're supposed to have it before, technically, in the rules. We're supposed to, as judges, get pictures and maps like 90 days before the trial. Very rarely does it happen. I'm gonna say Texas does this really nicely. I get like the beautiful PDFs of like, here's the search area, here's a map, here's what your areas look like, maybe even little videos. Um, do they need to be that detailed? No, not at all. But it would be nice to know what to walk into. Um, but at the same time, when you're you reusing the same spaces and again and again and you're hired by the same club, you kind of know what you're walking into. Um for our club in Copper State, some of this main, especially lower levels, they kind of look the same. It might be just the next classroom over. But Detective, which is the highest level competition, we're always aiming for a different search if we can. So trying to use our high school to the max, like maybe we'll use this set of classrooms. Maybe we've got a computer lab or something we can use. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Well, and one of the things I think that's interesting within ACSW that maybe a lot of hosts don't know, the certifying official has access to your trial folder that has all your pictures and your maps and your videos in there. And each certifying official is gonna have a different personal uh flavor or different, you know, habit. I'm one of those geeks that will look at your maps and look at your videos maybe even three to four weeks out before I get there. I just want it kind of in my head um what kind of spaces I'm gonna be gonna be looking at, right? And and thinking kind of just generally, oh, you know, what might be some some fun challenges. I also get on um the smugglings to see what other certifying officials have done at that site if you're if it's a repeat site. And I really try, and that's kind of one of the things that we wanted to do, really, um, by also having those available, right? The debriefs where we actually point out it's not just for the handlers, it's also as an organization, so I can step in as the next certifying official placing hides and try not to give you guys the same chair and the same room, right? The same row, right? Yeah, that kind of thing. So that can that can be helpful. Um, now what about re if you have to reuse the same space for different levels? So this is always it always feels a little odd. As okay, so if I've made that decision as a host, right? Um, and maybe it's it's day of, maybe it's just on the walkthrough. This is the first time I've really had to encounter. I really thought we were gonna be able to get the cafeteria. We get there, or maybe the day before, like Jen just went through this with her organization where we just had a trial, um, where they say, Oh, by the way, we're gonna have ex blah, blah, blah, in the community show up and use the gym on this day at two o'clock. So if you need to, blah, blah, blah. So um, I think one, it the space dictates it whether it can be reused, right? Is it large enough? And typically those are the spaces we don't mind reusing from one day to the other. Cafeteria that's large that you're gonna split in half is more than reasonable, right? Um, you know, any of those, a library even can be done. If you're talking about the same classroom, and now I want to reuse it for an interior space, maybe for the lower levels, one and two. Um, my suggestion to the CEO is gonna be, hey, let's just find some other space that will work, which means one of them I can use the classroom, but the other one I'm gonna either use a hallway or yeah, uh, you know, the the entryway or some other interior space that's not the same classroom. Um I don't think I've had to really be that specific in reuse of space anywhere, even even in some of my sites where we just had like no warning that we weren't gonna be able to use XYZ. I think we've been able to come up with something else each time.
SPEAKER_02I've had one AKC site, and it required me to sit down with the other judge that was there. Good thing I knew her, and we were able to sit down and kind of hash it out on the first day. But the school said, uh, I know you had a contract, but we're doing all the floors. So you only have access to this one hallway and there's two locker rooms and an art room attached to it. Luckily, the locker rooms had offices in them. So technically we had what is that, five rooms, but we had to figure out HD for the whole weekend. We had to figure out all the levels of interiors and detectives. So that's a lot of reuse of space. Outside was fine, we could spread out, but even flow in and out was a little bit more difficult. So luckily there was doors on the back side of all the rooms, but yeah, talk about like figuring out because there is a max number of hides that can be set in a trial weekend within a space, and so that's within that search area. So search area boundaries might move so that it can be reused. But yeah, there's a lot of forethought to make that happen.
SPEAKER_03Well, and one of the things I think a guidance tip here would be to really get with your facility early and often. That's kind of what you know. So yeah, and especially when you're like six months out, right? Like, so I've even, you know, put in my submission for a school in Gunnison for June of 2026, right? So am
Designing Red/Blue Flows And FEO Handling
SPEAKER_03I gonna get with the school and set that all up? Yes. Is it possible that something's going to happen between now and then? Yes. But typically what I like to do is at least touch base three months out and then maybe 30 days out, right? To just say, hey, just want to know if you've had any changes on your side, um, anything we need to be aware of, blah, blah, blah. And then I think too, on the up on the front side of when we're talking to our facilities, really try to emphasize we use these words, and sometimes they don't, they don't, the our facilities don't understand the concept. We say exclusive use, right? I need this facility, I want to do exclusive use. I'm gonna have, you know, very well um handling uh by my handlers and well-trained dogs coming in and out one at a time. This isn't um, you know, because people have that concept of a dog show where we're gonna have 20 dogs all at once in the gym together, you know, barking and blah blah blah. They so you have to kind of educate them as to what our event looks like. And that comes back to oh well, we've mentioned before having a video. Um, and I think Alex and and Stacy, you guys put together a video for your organizations where it kind of gave them a flavor of what we do, and here's what it looks like.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and it includes the cleanup too.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02So we did like a fast-forward sequence at the end for cleanup because it was nice to show the facilities. Like we put everything exactly back. There's photos.
SPEAKER_03Right, right. It looks clean. Yeah, and that's a big comment we often get, right? Is our footprint is so easy, so small and so easy, uh, that that's where it gets us a return. So um, is that anything that we can make available to people as an example, Alex? Yeah, yeah, for sure. I know we need to update it, but yeah, I can pop that on the hosting group. So we can put it up on Facebook and people can peel it off of there if you want to make your own, which I would highly suggest you do, so that it has not Arizona uh environment in it when I'm in Colorado and trying to show somebody something I want to do in the middle.
SPEAKER_02It is very branding. So we have our logo on top of it then.
SPEAKER_03Okay, yeah, yeah. Good. Okay. Um, well, and understand too that any of that reuse of that would also be copyright protected. So please ask Alex for any kind of use you want to make of that. Um but that kind of goes back to that um concept of um how do we figure this out if we actually get down to that day of. And and Jen, why don't you walk us through that? Because you just had this happen um for the um where you actually had to send off to me, oh, here's some revised maps for the for the trial this weekend or next weekend, whatever it was. It was like a week out, where she got with her facility and and found out that um we wanted to uh use some different areas than what she had originally in the file.
SPEAKER_01I had originally intended um to be able to use the gym and and they said, Oh, okay, great. Well, you have it reserved from seven to noon, and then starting at noon, we've got you know this youth football, indoor football thing uh coming in. And um, and I said, Oh, great, that sounds like a lot of fun. But we I can't guarantee we'll be out by 12, knowing that it's it was a summit trial. And I said, Well, how about, you know, if is it possible to move it any later, or I can just not use the gym at all? That's not a problem. I have a great relationship with this site, and it wouldn't have been a trouble at all to not use it. Um, and they said, Oh, that's no problem, then we'll
Traffic Cops, Wait Stations, And Line Of Sight
SPEAKER_01just have them come at two o'clock, which gave us a time to get in to um get our searches completed, um, to allow for the debrief videos to be filmed and then the gym to be put back together, which we really didn't move very much. So it gave plenty of time for that. Um, and you know, they said, Oh, then there's you know, this other classroom that I didn't think I was going to be able to use, and that we actually ended up getting to use it. So I we were able to kind of make a last-minute pivot from a relatively plain classroom to something a little bit more exciting for the teams.
SPEAKER_03Well, and I think using again, we're going back to using those terms exclusive use, so that can have a very different meaning to like typically a school that's um not huge, right? Where they really couldn't accommodate even in the parking lot to have maybe basketball practice going on at the same time as our event. And so when we say, hey, I need exclusive use, be sure that you have the conversation. Exclusive use of what? Is it I need exclusive use of just these rooms that I want to use? Or are you asking about the entire property? And that can really transfer to some of our large fairground sites, right? Yeah. So, like in Pueblo, Colorado, where we have a very large fairground, it would be crazy for me to say to the facility, no one else can come on property during the time that we have rented. Oh, by the way, we're only going to rent these two buildings, and then I want, you know, four more exteriors that I can use, right? Or whatever. So I've only rented, if you will, like maybe 25% of the entire grounds. And so when I ask for exclusive use, you kind of have to sometimes have that conversation as to what it means, right? Um, because I think that the the concept for schools, and I ran into this recently, not with trial sites as much as with uh workshop sites, and this came about and Jen uses the Facilitron website as well. So Facilitron is a nationwide um facility rental web page for typically schools, and some of the school districts use it for all of their schools, like in Grand Junction, all the schools are up there. I can only get into schools that have been taken out of service with dogs. So they have a prohibition against uh bringing in dogs in any way, shape, or form. Obviously, they couldn't refuse somebody with a service dog, but um in terms of a an event, right? So and this is where I ran into when I sign up for it and I go, okay, so I want to use the cafeteria from eight to noon, and for a workshop, I'm not even thinking I gotta get through 30 competitors, right? Right, each doing a three-minute search. So, yes, it could take me, or say that turns out to be the five-minute search in the in the gym. So now I am talking about three hours, and if we start at nine in the morning, right? So, but I want to set it from eight so I can get in there and set it up. I don't have right, and I'm not sharing that space with other community events for this time frame. So on the faciliton, you actually have to put what your time frame is going to be for using it. So then I'd forget to have that conversation of, hey, did any is anyone renting it after us? Like if we're early or late, you know, what yeah. So sometimes those are conversations you want to have because your facilities don't always have that concept of what we think exclusive use means. Not only does it mean I want to use my search area exclusively, typically I'm also asking exclusive use of the facility and or at least my general area of where from where my people are parked all the way to where they exit and get back to their parking.
SPEAKER_02Anything I find that yeah, some facilities they may not remember really long-term contracts that they may have signed, and so they don't even think about it. So, like an ongoing driver school, we ran into that where it was one classroom and they didn't even think, oh, yeah, they come in on every Sunday, or a church
Accessibility And Facility Constraints
SPEAKER_02that rents one room. And so if you know about it ahead of time, you can work around that. But if it shows up and you've done your walkthrough videos the night before, yeah, that's a big one to try and bite and figure out.
SPEAKER_03So we actually had that happen down in the front range at the Vanguard. It was a wonderful technical school, and it was huge, huge, right? So I even had our CO in and we did all of our first day in one part of the school, and the second day was going to be second day was Sunday, did it in the second part of the school, and we went in and did this three classrooms that were pretty much in close proximity. They weren't side by side. And lo and behold, we go to set, she set her hides, we go to start the searches, and church showed up. A minister and his wife, and they're setting out chairs in our the one of the rooms that we had designated for one of our searches. I'd have the conversation, and it was we've been renting this space for 20 years, right? And like, oh, okay, well then, right? And so even after I tried as best I could to say, well, could could we you start a little later? I don't see any of your parishioners here. And he was actually a minister to the homeless. So I didn't want to be like cavalier, like that didn't count, but he didn't have anybody there at the time. So I was just trying to ask some questions, right? And ultimately what we did is we just moved it. Um our Laurel, our certifying official, was just knew exactly what to do. So she just went and set up one in another area. We will set up the other ones, and this was even before we had video walkthroughs. We were doing physical walkthroughs, so it wouldn't matter, right? Um, but she did tell them, hey, we're gonna dispense with you guys getting a physical walkthrough because we're gonna set up these other two, you'll get a chance to look at it when you come into this to the room, and we were able to do it that way. So that also happens sometimes with our virtual walkthroughs, by the way. You know, if we have a change and or or we go in and uh we go to run dog in white or something happens with the facility before we actually can start searches in that area, and all of a sudden we're coming out to the parking lot and saying, Hey guys, we changed your XYZ. Um, it isn't because we're trying to be unduly complex. It's because we want to actually be the opposite, which is have a successful search.
SPEAKER_02So you know the work got locked.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Yes, that has happened, right? Yeah. Where we walk away from it and go, oops. And all my things are. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Because often what will happen with the schools too is that you can um negotiate so that you're basically not being charged for the space, you're being charged for the staffing, right? For the facility person to be there. So yeah, so those are some fun, fun ways to deal with your facility. So, okay, so now let's jump into like some of the other questions on Facebook that we had. Um, I think one of them was volunteer recruitment. Um, so do you guys have any kind of um ideas on that? I I try to do it a lot from the student side, which is you really will benefit from you know participating in a trial. Now, granted, when I do that, and I'm gonna take this last most recent weekend with Jen and her. Um Ashley her VC to heart, which is if I'm going to tell my people they need to go learn from a trial, I ought to putting them in a position where they actually can observe the search, right? Because otherwise all I'm doing is asking them, oh, come support the trial. And that's what I should say is, oh, you'll learn some things about the people who come, you'll get to see the dogs, blah, blah, blah. But I don't know if you'll be able to see searches, right? I should just be up front with it. If I'm going to ask them that it's the best way to observe dogs running, I should make sure that as a host, I'm going to rotate them up so that they can actually watch some dogs searching. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I found from the teacher's point of view, can be so and I teach, and so I've got a large student base, but even as a club, we started offering classes. And some of the reason was to create a volunteer force that can hopefully take over some key roles within the club. And you're not going to get everybody, but maybe one or two every once in a while will come through and they want to participate. And how we sell it is you will get much more comfortable with the trial environment. So even if you don't get in to see all the searches all the time, but at least I feel you'll know how the trials will run. You can see how different handlers handle the stagings, um, and we'll try and get you in and rotate. But when you only have five people, because it's a really low turnout for volunteers, you might get stuck somewhere. So just kind of that kind of upfront of like you're learning about the whole thing, and hopefully you can see some of the search areas as well. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Well, and here's an interesting um
Contacting COs And Building The Bench
SPEAKER_03experience. So Jen had, so they Ashley, her VC, will actually have a judge's steward and then like a co-judge's steward. So there's two of them. Oh, cool.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_03Scott Last King's steward. Yeah, and if the Latga stewards. And then they can trade. Yes, and then they move up and down, right? I had never experienced that before. Those poor girls. So they're outside the door, and I come out and there's one person, I'm cool. That's there's the judge's steward. Yay, bang up job, right? Then I go and look at my other search and I come back, now it's a different person. So now I'm immediately going, Who's giving the briefing? What happened? What happened to my briefing? Where did my brief right? And because, like, for instance, say it was like with at Summit, this is where you get a I mean, most of your levels, your CO is not gonna be that involved in what what you're having your your volunteers do. If you have a fairly new CO at that level, they might. The where I became involved was with my summit twist, right? Because I was kind of confused on how to explain it. So then I'm like, okay, so who might are we explaining this right? Like, yeah, and and then my thought was just let the judge explain it, but then my judge might not be right there when the team comes in. Now I'm asking my teams to ask questions after they're already in, right? So it's just even those little things of thinking about that, um, that I might have touched base with my host or with my VC and said, Hey, do you guys feel confident with you know how we're gonna explain right the twist? Now, the funny thing is you get seasoned um, like Ashley just looks at me and goes, Well, of course, I know what I'm doing. And I'm like, oh no, no, no. This isn't really because of you. Yeah, this is totally me, right? I want to make sure that I've touched base with you and communicated accurately, you know. And in this case, it was fairly simple, but believe me, I've come up with some twist ideas that weren't gonna be easy to explain. So, right. So what else can we think of with regard to that trial planning and logistics? So, how about flow? We talked it all about flow.
SPEAKER_02Flow. So, what if a flow changes last minute? So, the example is uh we had a trial this past fall, and I want to say we had eight inches of rain. So, the parking lot changed. We couldn't use our parking lot that we were gonna use because it was six inches of water to walk to the first gate to get in. Uh, once you're in, it was fine, but getting to the search areas was not gonna work unless everybody had rubber boots, and even still, it might go over the top. So, what do we do? We ended up changing parking lots and we had to change every single flow. And where they're coming in, where they're leaving, uh, some of the staging areas, because the search area was right off of that other parking lot, then we had to come up with less staging and kind of line of sight blocks and adjusting path and getting kind of religious about that. Um, having a backup of a lot of extra tarps and tenth sides that we could zip together to put along fencing was really important because you could see some of the search areas then from the parking lot. But it worked. Um, talk about heart attack first thing in the morning of trying to figure out okay, what do we do? Because everything changed.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so we had that happen in Montrose because the dirt pathway that was just my pathway between my parking lot and my searches was this little bridge of dirt, and it fell through. The maintenance guy, and I don't think his lawnmower fell through, but literally fell through, and the irrigation ditch that it was going over, right, was right and it was full and it was running. Wow, right?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it was so it was tripping.
SPEAKER_03And that happened um the night my walkthrough. So I knew it happened before the walkthrough, right? So, and then the the parking area we had that we could use that was on the corresponding search area side of the bridge was very small. And I was like, oh my god, there's no way we're gonna get 30 cars in here that aren't like so close you won't be able to get your door open. Forget about any kind of reactive dog parking, right? Right? You're all gonna be living and breathing the same airspace. So we actually ended up creating two separate uh parking lots, two separate parking lots. And the the challenge there was I still wanted the flow to be the same because I couldn't somehow midday say, oh, by the way, parking lot A, you drive over to B and B drive over to A, because this
Priorities, Draws, And Host Benefits
SPEAKER_03this site is so small and so compact. It's a Western museum uh village type thing. There's no I needed them to just go and park and be in the same spot all day. So now we had to even create in our heads how do I get parking lot B to be able to flow, right? So what we did is we flowed the first 13 into that search one and then had to run over to parking lot B and change our flow so they could get to search one. And I still wanted two searches going on at the same time. Wow, talk about brain damage first thing in the morning, right? But we stayed up. I stayed up, I think, most of that night. I think at midnight I was still going, oh, separate parking areas. I don't got your CO, did you? No, that was me. So that was the craziest weekend that we had. Right. So part of that, guys, is not that we want hosts to have to CO their own trials. That's a huge blunder. But we poor Kathy Pierce, she had um an ear um infection that was serious, and she said, Oh no, I can get on a plate. And I said, Oh no, you can't. Yeah so we did everything we could to find another CO. It was such short notice we couldn't do that. So I got the blessing to be able to CO that so we didn't have to cancel it. But dang, I still had to remember what hat I had on, right? Which was whip that CO hat off, make this happen, because otherwise I was gonna have to can't now it would be a facility issue that I might have to cancel, right? And if we do that, we should be communicating that as soon as possible. And in in this case, the the chip and I had this happen in Laramie once before with a blizzard. I've already got a certain portion of my people who are there, right? They're there, they're in hotels, they're already ready to go, right? So, you know, to just send out an email say, sorry, our facility got blah, blah, blah. We're canceling the trial. Give try to get a hold of every single resource you possibly can to still make that trial happen at that juncture, right? So somehow, some way. Um, and I've even had, I remember during COVID, we had one scheduled in um Meeker, and I got I tested positive for COVID like the day before, um, or two days before. So I just had to tell Kathy, okay, I'm going to, that's one of my training partners here. Um, if you would be host, that would be great. And I'm gonna drive the trailer from my house to the school and drop it off, and guy's gonna pick me up, you won't even see me, and all your host stuff is in there. Yay, go. And she was like, Oh my god, really? And I said, Yeah, really? Because, right? Because I just felt like oh that's just too short a notice to really to do much of anything else. So I guess the message there is you guys, you have a village, reach out, you know, first go to your TC, um, then reach out, and um, you know, if you have to, you know, tap into any other resources you have to figure that one out, uh, please do. Okay, so what can we do? So just even looking at flow, I think that some of the differences that I see between
2026 Goals And Closing Thanks
SPEAKER_03like applaud, applaud, applaud Jen and Ashley for a summit where they did not use numbers flipped in the in the parking lot. It was only the app. And guess what? Everybody found their way to the search and away, and we were not waiting for teams to go into the search. Everybody was there, they were ready, and it worked. So part of it seems to be training, and part of it is training your constituency, right?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I haven't used numbers as an apartment in a parking lot in months.
SPEAKER_03But part of my challenge is I almost have to because I don't know day of if I'm gonna have electricity. Or sell service. It's not that bad. I probably will have electricity, but it's not likely I will have cell or Wi-Fi that's sufficient in rural Colorado to support that. So we and it's in the trailer, so we bring both. And um, and then I also might have my parking lot steward not feeling that great about uh flipping the numbers. So I'm always interested in getting more information on that. So, Jen, how are you doing that? Is it your last gate steward that's flipping the numbers? Is it your uh VC? Who's who's doing the the most work on deciding when to advance that next team?
SPEAKER_01It it depends on the particular flow. Generally speaking, it's the last gate steward. And as often as we possibly can, we try to only have one gate anyway. Um, so it would be, and what we always tell our teams is if you're not the number is up on the app, that means that there is a chair empty and waiting for you, that there is a spot available for you. It's not to get your gear together and get your treats together. No, it's your dog should be ready to go and you're hopping out of the car and coming in because we have a chair ready. Usually it's the last gate steward. Sometimes um, if we have two gates, it's the final person or it's the first gate steward. Um, and then we use walkies from one gate steward to that to that first one.
SPEAKER_03And part of that timing is um for those of you who might not have thought of this, but it's the amount of time it takes for them to walk once that number goes up from their car or wherever um to that last gate. And is that time longer or shorter than your search? So if it's shorter, um then you're okay. If that walk is longer, right, then that's where you might put in the next another gate if you have. Another gate, right? Yeah. So that's kind of how we gear that.
SPEAKER_02So something I've run into with the electronic. Um, one piece is you need somebody who has the ability. Um, so like in AKC, we like to use like agility gates, kind of the one that we're using right now. But the hard part is is having somebody with the ability on their phone to do it, that is your volunteer. Or I've known some clubs that have actually bought laptops as a club or uh iPads, and so then they're running it off of an iPad because the iPad has been purchased only for the event. Um, so that's one way around it. We haven't done that yet as a club, but maybe we do it.
SPEAKER_03Actually, Jean Richardson did this up in Oregon, and she got uh and I would have to ask her because they're all they're gonna do is run a URL, right? I mean, uh it's not gonna be or the or an app that goes right on. It's an app. So I think she she got little, what are they not like iPads, they're actually that like cheaper tablet? Yeah, like a tablet, like a reading tablet that's only like this big. And I think she said she got them used on Amazon, and she has one, of course, that has a red casing to it, and one that has a blue casing to it. Yeah. So that's the one. Tammy has the same thing. Yeah, so the blue matches her blue dots that go in, and the red matches her red dot. And so that's another thing that the handlers can see when they come in, and their game steward that's pushing the numbers has the red tablet in their hand. They go, I'm on the right path, right? I'm on the red path, I'm on the blue path. So I've been thinking about trying to trying to do that. And then, of course, my challenge then becomes again, can I anticipate? Yeah, can I anticipate what ones of my sites are gonna have cell are gonna at least consistent cell? Because our problem can be um, you know, maybe a Verizon works really good at that site and AT3 doesn't, right? And vice versa. So that can be the other issue. While I may have somebody who's got a cell phone and it works really great and they can run it, but now they don't have the corresponding best service for that competitors or your competitors are split two or three ways in the different cell services that they use.
SPEAKER_01And so it's not just your one person flipping the numbers that has to have cell service or Wi-Fi, it's everybody's lot. Right.
SPEAKER_02So along the same line, we've had some AKC likes to have, who seems to have a lot of older competitors, or I think we've got a lot of older, especially here in Arizona. It's retirement village here. Um, but as a result, they don't have phones necessarily or know how to operate their phones to even pull up those apps or websites. Um, so that has been a big pushback, is we do have a number of people that are in the parking lot and go, we're not using it. Um, so that's kind of a pushback that we've been dealing with too. So figuring that out as a club, uh, we run our lower level searches all in a row. So novice, you're doing all four elements and then back to the parking lot. Well, it takes a lot of time on the front end to load that very specific run order because you're making your own run order, not individuals, which gets put out of the system. So that adds time and effort too. So it's all these little things to think about as a club or as an individual to host. NECSW, easy. Like agility gate, you just send it. I know a lot of the other systems are developed by people in NECSW. Yes, built for it, super easy. You put it through. AKC, it gets a little bit trickier to try and figure out okay, can I use it? How easy is it? How is it gonna look like?
SPEAKER_03Well, and I think that one of those things that's interesting is because the agility gate, um, the concept of it is that you might have multiple sports going on at the same time. So really not so much I'm assigned number one, I must go number one always, because you can drop and same exactly same with the um uh some of the other uh URL-based, which is a web page-based um apps. You can drop somebody like to the bottom, but it doesn't, it then it changes their number. Well, it doesn't really change their number, but it drops them, right? So we find it's better just to kind of skip them if we have to, because especially when we're running FEO. So that's kind of been kind of one of my challenges, Jen, is I've got s enough FEOs running that then if we're just doing the app, the folks are getting confused on when should I, right? Right. Oh, so this is only gonna pretend pertain to your title dog, and don't use the app for your FEO dog. For your FEO dogs, I want you to just walk up. So that means I have to have my parking lot steward. Yeah, I've got to have that person there who can then feed them in. So that's another reason for the dual system, if you will, right? Sure. And that kind of works because I really like the app because as a host or even certifying official, I can see inside. I can be inside the whole facility and tell where we are, right? Rather than going all the way back out to the parking lot to ask my parking lot steward, hey, what number are we on, right? And because even in your score room, that's a guess as to where you are because they're they're entering it as those pages come in. They're not right, they're not privy to exactly. Yeah, right. Exactly.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_03So some of the um when we're talking about managing search flows during trials, though, I think I just want to hit on this really quick because I think that this is really important. And and I know the three of us kind of have um had this experience. We've developed our own methods kind of because of our experiences, and find that it really works. So what typically uh we'll do is it's the host and the VC who may split up the flow for each side, if you will, because we have two searches going on at the same time. One will say, Hey, I'm gonna do the red one, I'm gonna do the blue one. And by God, I already have forgotten to bring my blue and red dots. So my guys aren't even doing red and blue, kind of consistently. Orange. Orange. Yeah. But the sign outside where my number flipper is is blue or red. So we're starting out okay. We're getting um, but my thought is that we're watching that flow to make sure it's it's working, right? So even as a volunteer, if you're asked to be in a certain position and we come up later and say, Hey, would you mind doing this? Either I need to put you behind a barrier, or um, let's have move your chair up, or let's move it back, or here's a radio. What are some of the other things, you know, that will tweak as we go when we realize that we could be more effective and more efficient with that flow and making sure it works on both of those sides that we don't have um you know dog-to-dog interaction going in or coming out, et cetera, et cetera.
SPEAKER_02Or line of sight or hearing, right? So yeah, as you're walking down the line, you're like, ooh, I don't like that line of sight. Like whether it's you've seen the dog walk by or you can actually see it's part of the search area. Um, so adjusting chairs as you go back and forth.
SPEAKER_03And sometimes with all that planning, it just you just it's forced for the trees, right? So we have a site down in Gunnison, the Pioneer Museum, and this is Karen Damon and I years ago, years ago, and we had this whole exterior set up, and we just get the first dog in, and we're walking by and we're going, okay, we're walking to the other search, and you can see the whole thing. And we went, oh, guess what we forgot? We forgot a line of sight barrier into that search. So we went and got some vehicles and created that line of sight barrier so we didn't have to like stop anything and redo, redo the pathway or anything like that. So that's another good reason to like test, right? Like walk it and walk it once it starts, too, you know. Yeah, because that can be that can be really important. So what else can we think of? Were there other questions that were on that Facebook?
SPEAKER_02Um, something that is important, especially if things are gonna flip last minute. So, like maybe a CEO's suggesting, hey, can we flip these searches? Can we do a different order? Um, is to have what searches can go with which. So I have like a side A and a side B, and I put them in lists. And so these search areas can go with these search areas, but they can't go within the same list. Yeah. And so then that allows you to mix and match if things have to change.
SPEAKER_03And I learned this kind of a couple times now this year, where I looked at my CO and said, Oh no, we can make anything work, right? And my CO's going, No, Jill, tell me what works. Oh no, no, seriously, we can make anything work. And what happened was on my, and this is especially true with NW3, because you've got six searches. Yeah. Something's gonna flip. You do not want four searches on one side and two on the other. You will be sitting at two at NW2, that's fine, because you've got two and two, so that's four. Yeah. And then my last one can rotate on its own, right? It can be from either side, doesn't matter. Right. But if I've got two flows that flow, you know, either hands on or what is it, wax on, wax off. Um, kind of one goes to the right and one goes to the left in and out of the building. Um, and I end up with four on one side and two on the other, I'm going to be sitting waiting for right because I either can't get the flow to work, or maybe I'm walking right by the search area. So now it's line of sight. So that really helps what what Alex is suggesting about making that list. And I'm so visual, I just put it on a map. Yeah, yeah. Rather than make a list, I just put it on a map and say, you can we can use any interior over here, right? This is where my interiors are gonna go. Interiors and containers are gonna flow over here. Um, I've got two interiors and a container that's three searches. I've got another container, a vehicle, and an exterior over on this side, and I'm gonna flow them like that. And that really, really helps so that yeah, no matter what the CO may pick, um, you know, you can make that work, right?
SPEAKER_02Something else I've done, especially when you have potentially the same in for multiple ways or the same out for multiple ways. So maybe they both have to go through the same gate and then they diverge away from there, is having a traffic cop kind of volunteer, which allows you to manage dogs, managing people, and allowing that to be a little bit more spaced out. And that person has to be very kind but efficient and aware, um, and verifying what way people are going. But yeah, that's a good role. And it feels like it's like an extra role. A lot of volunteers are like, really? Like, I need you. Yeah, it's important.
SPEAKER_03No, and we call it a super cop because um we want your head on a on a pivot, right? Yeah. Um, because it's just like you're at a four-way intersection, maybe even five, and you're gonna try to keep the traffic going, right? Where they should go, when they should turn, when they shouldn't turn, right? Who is priority? Yeah. And as CO, I made the mistake once of suggesting that to an inexperienced crew that didn't know how to do it, and we ended up with a bit of chaos.
SPEAKER_02And I think fights and stuff, yeah.
SPEAKER_03And by fights, she just means not physical. Verbal frustration. But yes, and then we could also have just some dog-to-dog um interaction, right, closer than we would want. And we always want to honor that team going into the search to make sure that they have the benefit of a focused, calm, ha, calm dog. And I say ha ha only because my dog's rarely calm, um, right, going into the search. And then coming out, you could even put a weigh station. I don't think we've really done this before, uh, but you could put a wait station for the team coming out. So if they have to share that area where they just go into a room and they have to wait there until the steward comes to get them, and the steward is letting the other team into the search before they let that team out. And that can work very well, especially at Elite and Summit at these upper levels where the search is gonna be seven minutes, but we don't want to wait for that team exiting to get clear out of line of sight before I bring in my next team because it's already a long search. So I'd rather have the wait on my exit than on my entry. So that's another concept there.
SPEAKER_02So yeah, and we've had that with elevators, so using an upstairs, like cool room, an exterior balcony, and so we've had that staging either for the way up or frequently it was for the way down. Um, whoever's up, if that search ended up happening quickly, but that extra weight station in a bathroom next to the elevator, it worked really smooth, it was really easy. There was never a dog-on-dog, so that was but it requires a volunteer that knows how to do it, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, well, and that kind of leads you into when you're talking about um elevators, that there is a space on the entry for what we call the ADA um entry or considerations. And on the host side, it's really more of just an accessibility consideration and whether or not we can accommodate it or the facility can. Um so we try to answer those as best we can. Um, so what we really ask from everybody, and I've really had to talk to a few of my people here, like when I see somebody show up and and they got a boot on their foot and they didn't, you know, put it on their entry, and I just say, hey, can we just do that right now? Just go ahead and email either myself and I can forward it, just so the organization knows that that we're gonna, you know, have you park closer and and make sure we have at least those and be as detailed in that as you can. Is it that you just need parking close in? Is it that you can't do stairs and is there an elevator? And then please refer back to your premium because that's gonna tell you uh what this facility can and can't do. As a host, uh we there's certain things we just can't do, and at that point, might even be in a position where we have to say, hey, we're happy to refund your your entry free fee, but we really can't accommodate what your needs are for this particular uh trial site. So yeah.
SPEAKER_02Anything else, especially with like those old museums, yeah, like that, or if they're working facilities, like the Wild West Town. I just did a seminar at a Wild West Town, it is not ADA compatible at all. Like any of those search areas are just not gonna work for something like that. But uh, as long as everybody knows on the front end of what you're walking into, that is a huge piece of it to try and help with that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, because some of that might even be even if it's short flights of stairs, yeah. They're they're open stairs, they're right. Is the railing really gonna be helpful? It's not even, there's ridges to go into every room. Yep, yep, and the floors are not even, you know, that sort of thing. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, cool. So anything else we can think of? What else might we have missed on that Facebook page?
SPEAKER_02The one other thing I do see a question here is contacting COs. Like, is it kosher to email multiple at once, especially when you're trying to do last minute? I was doing this with judges, uh, especially over the holiday season, nobody was getting back to me. Um, and so I still haven't heard back from a judge, and I was able to secure another judge in order to get my stuff out. Um, so is it kosher to do more than one?
SPEAKER_03I say yes, and it just I just be upfront about it, right? So I think if I see an email that says um I'm sending this to multiples to find out who's available, but I do need a response and I put in a time frame, not as soon as possible. Put in a time frame. If you can respond to me by this Friday, that that's really what I need to know. Um, and then you just have to presume that if you haven't gotten the email back, that they're not gonna respond, right? And just move on. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Jen, what do you suggest?
SPEAKER_01I like same as you. I just make sure that you're up front and set a date. Just you know, hey, I'd like to get this result, you know, figured out hopefully by XYZ date.
SPEAKER_03And as in our CO organization, we are asked to respond to that as quickly as we can. Um Jen and Alex both are are in our um organization as certifying officials. And the concept is because I what I do as soon as I see that in my email, I try as best I can rather than say, well, geez, I can't even begin to answer that. I'm traveling, I don't have my calendar. Because I'm one of those weirdos who puts my calendar, final calendar in pencil on my desk. Like it's over here, right? I'm one of those weirdos. It's in my phone, but I still would want to look at this because that's this is gonna have my other business. So it's got multiple businesses on, right? Yeah, versus I might have my um mountain dogs and my CO calendar on my phone. But I still would like to check with other things, check with my spouse, blah, blah, blah. So what I'll do is often say, Hey, I think I could make that work, or I'd be interested. I'd love to come and CO for you. Can you wait until and if it's oh my gosh, no, I've got to get info to my TC you know now, then I'll say, hey, move on if you get another response. And if not, I'll get you an answer on Monday or whatever it is. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And then some of the other things that I've done too is if you're looking for a lower level CO, I highly recommend, and granted, I know some of it can be dictated by how much is in your budget, right? Where can you bring the CO in from and what could what can you afford for that travel budget? Yeah, but I highly recommend that you use that you bring in COs that are have the certification that is the lower levels if you're trying to do lower levels, right? Um, and that's because we really want to honor the education that they've already done and provide them with that experience to get those levels in so then they can move up. Because as an organization, what we want to say is um, here, here, do this bucket first, which is like NW123, then we do elite, and then we do summit. So if you're actually bringing in an elite-approved um CO, um, will you know, is it where you want to um have an elite day for that trial? And it's not gonna work every time, but I have done that with my host where I've said, Oh, God, I'd love to do that for you. But, you know, especially like down in the front range around Denver area, we must have five or six people who are in the CO program who are at the beginning stages of it with their first levels. Yeah. So I'm saying to them, can you go and ask them for have you asked all of them first before we have before I come in? Right. And it's I'm not trying to be arrogant or rude or anything about it. I really, really support our whole organization as a whole.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. And another thing to think about too is hiring an SEO. Um, because an SEO might give an opportunity for training for folks that are going through the CO program so that we can get some more people out. So that is also a really nice advantage. And we get a hundred bucks for that. You get a discount.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. On your trial fees. Yeah, so yeah, the trial fees, you'll get a discount on that. So oh, and the other thing that's fun about hosting too, right, is all your double draws and your priority, right? Priority. And so now we also have um score room leads. So we're we're paying, paying our score room leads fees, and they're able now to pick up their is it a priority or double draw?
SPEAKER_01It's a priority for your first seven days in a calendar year, and then after that, every seven days is a double draw or an additional draw. So depending on how much.
SPEAKER_03It is a priority first. Okay, so if you go in in your score room leave for three days for one trial, and then you do another four days, you get one more.
SPEAKER_01Now you have a priority. Okay. Yep. And then you do seven more days, and every seven multiple of that is um additional draws. Got it. Cool.
SPEAKER_03And then we can use those draws. You can, I mean, you don't need to use more than one priority. Because you can't. That's not true. Right, you can't, but it is possible where a host may have multiple people asking to use a priority.
SPEAKER_01Yes, and then it goes to a lottery. Is that right? It goes, yes. So it's done, it's up to 10% of a trials entry can be uh made up of priority entries. So uh the most common place you see it is at Summit. Summit is a team of there's 28 competitive teams. Right. Um, and so we allow up to three of those draws to be priority. So my summit that I just hosted actually had, I believe, six people that wanted to use a priority. So then that came down to a draw of that. Okay. You got to use your priority. But then um we send out a message to them and say, you know, okay, let's say the priority fails and you don't get to use it. Well, you get it back. That's fine. If you if it doesn't get you in the trial, you get your priority back. But then um, do you want to use any additional draws? Right. Um, and so we had some people who said, Oh, yes, if I can't use my priority, then I put me in for three additional draws or two additional draws. And um, and that just of course just increases your chances of getting in.
SPEAKER_03And then with the additional draws, I asked Terry, uh, who's in our organization who does a lot of this, and and Jen is helping her as well, and some other people are helping as well. I think Myra also jumps in there. Um, but I said, okay, so does that mean that uh it's just the luck of the draw and you're gonna draw it once, and then the second one I could get a worse result? And she said, No, let's throw away the the worst, right? You would keep the best one. You would have been better off had you stopped at the first one, right? By saying, okay, use three draws, it doesn't mean that you're like, you know, trying to win the lottery three different times. Right. Right, right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So no, we'll just keep the best of the three.
SPEAKER_03Well, I think we really hit a whole bunch of topics, guys, and really covered kind of what we have been seeing lately on the Facebook page. And I think that that's maybe what we'll try to do is as we see some topics come up and that need to be discussed. I don't know whether or not the three of us will have the kind of time that it takes to put a monthly podcast together. Um, but we'll certainly try for every other month or something like that moving forward into 2026. So we're really happy with everybody hosting. Um, and I think that the Facebook page is a great uh place to start out asking your questions and getting feedback. We've got a lot of hosts who just, you know, they do a great job of doing this discussion without us even involved. Uh so it really works out well. So um I'm gonna say happy new year and uh go host, and let's uh get some um replies from Jen and Alex as to what they hope uh to 2026 will bring for all of us.
SPEAKER_02Great. Um I'm gonna say my hosting goals. So my hosting goals for 2026 is to actually host. Last year I didn't host at all. I did some AKC hosting. Um so this year I've got an NACSW trial coming up. Uh I've got some CO gigs coming up, which I'm quite excited. I get to go to Georgia. Yay! Um, and so that should be fun. I'm gonna have fun with that. And then we've got some AKC trials coming up as well. So in the spring and in the fall. What about you, join Jen?
SPEAKER_01I my biggest goal is to increase the types of venues that I have, uh, the types of sites that I have. I have a lot of schools because they have a lot of great relationships, but I'm doing a stadium in January, I'm doing a motorsports park in March. Um, I've got some museums that I'm working with, so I'd like to really increase my um types of types of sites because I'm doing trying to do around 10 trials a year.
SPEAKER_03I want to move closer to Georgia. That's a little far for me to go with poor little Zeke.
SPEAKER_01That's a long drive.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I can get on a flight now with Bespa. I know you can. She's got the pocket rocket, right? So okay, everybody, really happy that you could come along and listen to our podcast. Please let us know if you have any questions, concerns, if we can be a further resource, and happy new year to everyone.
SPEAKER_01Happy New Year. Happy New Year.
