Find Your Fix- Sport Dog Scent Detection Podcast- Training Tips and More !
K9 Scent Fix—Find YOUR Fix- Sport Dog Scent Detection Podcast
JOIN THE FUN ! Canine Nose Work coaching tips and tricks to help fix your training and trial challenges with an open mindset. Offering methods and techniques that might be new to you or outside your "usual". Chatting with the experts, experienced nose work coaches and guest speakers exploring new ideas, how to use them and build solid training resources with Mountain Dogs and Release Canine.
Join us for the LIVE podcast via Zoom - watch for each LIVE podcast announcment and interact with your Hosts Jill Kovacevich from Mountain Dogs and Aleks Woodroffe from Release Canine. Email us at mtnnosework@gmail.com OR aleks.woodroffe@gmail.com WITH your Topics or Comments. We love to hear from you our K9SF Handlers !
Recorded Podcast released within 24-48 hours or during the first week of each month. Look for the Podcast posting at k9scentfix.buzzsprout.com
Find Your Fix- Sport Dog Scent Detection Podcast- Training Tips and More !
OPTIMIZING YOUR TRIAL SUCCESS- USING THE WALKTROUGH & DEBRIEF VIDEOS
NACSW and AKC (and other venues) utilize pre and post search videos for Handlers to preview or review actual "real life" trial searches. These videos are captured by the Certifying Offical or Judge with the goal to provide search and hide placement analysis for your competition day prepartion or post trial review. The videos are an amazing tool for experiencing what a trial search looks and "feels" like in "real life" on that trial day. Optimizing this virtual experience tool can help shape your trial day and/or shape your pre or post trial training. The online videos are real life search scenarios from NW1 and Novice to Summit and Detective.
These videos provides a wealth of information from start line to finish, environmental awareness, search area size, boundaries, distraction areas and a virtual map for Handler review.
Before the trial, the Walkthrough Video provides a Handler's SNEAK PEAK and private viewing that may be used to gain search area awareness and potential search condifence much like building a search map in your minds eye to better understand your dog's search as it unfolds and better prepare for areas within that search that may be easy to miss or dismiss.
After the trial- Its the analysis of what that search looked like, hide locations, areas of odor pathways, odor collection, pooling and trapping and transitiions moving from one area to another and building your muscle memory for the "types" of searches and parameters for the level at which you trial with your dog.
These videos are so much more than the depictiion of "yet another search area" and are an amazingly important tool to build awareness and confidence in our Handler understanding and search expectations on trial day.
Hey everybody, welcome to our podcast. Alex Woodruff is with me and I'm Jill Kovacevic. We're going to talk about our walkthrough debrief videos that are available for both NACSW and for AKC and how, perhaps, to optimize those videos to either analyze your trials or assess your skill sets and what you need to work on in training. Both of us individually have certain things we do or don't do with regard to those videos, so we just want to give a whole overview of kind of how they came about, maybe perhaps what those organizations intended them to be for, and then how you can best utilize those as another training resource and a training tool. Yeah, so let's jump right in. Hey, alex, tell us a little bit about I guess we'll just start at the beginning, right, sure? So how do I find these videos?
Speaker 2:So I'm like you. We like to use them walkthrough videos for NACSW, sometimes AKC, or the debrief videos. And debriefs for NACSW are going to be in the same spot as walkthrough videos on their SmugMug site, which there is a link from their main page. But I typically uh have it already queued up on my browser, whether it's on my phone or on the computer, so it's already always up. But it's uh walkthrough, uh, all one word, all small case yep, dot n-a-c-s-w, dot n-e-t net, and so it's super easy to find and that's the, even though it's a smug mug site.
Speaker 1:That URL will take you to the smug mug site.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, okay. And so from there you get to see all the way up to 2020, when the videos were really kind of getting started, which, okay. So I'm going to say thank you to COVID for starting this.
Speaker 2:Because we really didn't get this before, having to go a little bit more virtual and a little less in person, and it's continued through because, oh my God, it's so helpful and it's amazing, not just after the fact for learning, but in the day right. It's so much easier to get that information and not forgetting things and everybody gets the same information. Whether you had to leave early or not, or you can't get their first thing, whatever it might be, everybody has the exact same information. So it's kind of a nice addition and that's why I've really liked that everybody's gone online, kind of just attaching onto the same line before we diving into it.
Speaker 2:Akc some clubs did do something similar and they went online, and so our club here in Arizona we do for Copper State, we do virtual walkthroughs, so we video all our search areas before you get there and you will be sent a playlist kind of in your email that you get sent out at the beginning like confirmation, and so your videos will pop up in there. You can view them at any point in time. If there's additional videos that have to be done between the days of trials, those get added in, and so it's kind of the same thing and I work a lot with a club in California San Gabriel Foothills Visual Club does it as well sometimes, and so for them same kind of thing you get sent a playlist and it's up to you to take a look at them and see what videos you have to search.
Speaker 1:So it's kind of nice that there's some clubs that do that as well, and then that playlist is it like how do I know that it's going to be like compatible with my phone or my computer or whatever? Is it like does it's YouTube? Okay, it's just a YouTube link Okay. Yeah. And then the other, like NACSW, primarily uses SmugMug, right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And there's always going to be some technical glitches, because I don't think there's anything perfect, right, so-.
Speaker 1:Well, and then even when I host my non-sanctioned, I like to put those up as well. So we have them up on the Mountain Dog Smug Mug page for the Hornet and I've put them up there for the last I don't know four years that we've done the Hornet. So that kind of gives you kind of an idea too of what those searches look like Totally.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:So if the walkthroughs are up there, so how do I get that first link? Is it it's from the host?
Speaker 2:Yeah, technically it is in the letter, but you can go look for it yourself and they are organized by date. So if you were to pull it up, like right now if I pulled up 2025, I can see a whole bunch that they've already made the folders, for there's no photos, videos or anything in them, but they're ready to go. So once things get uploaded into them and that date comes around, you will be able to take a look at those for any CSW.
Speaker 1:Right and I've noticed at the top of the page up in the upper right. You've got that home browse and search and I've actually tried to use the search, the little search engine on there. Well, it brings up a little search queue where you can ask for it to search for photos, videos, galleries, folders, places right.
Speaker 1:And so what I've done in the past, especially looking for my, because I, quite frankly, use this as a host sometimes yeah, to look back. Well, yeah, because when I host, it's my certifying official who chooses what search areas we're going to use on what day, so they may not match my particular maps, right?
Speaker 1:So, then I get to the next year and I want to make sure, for instance, that my areas that I'm wanting to use or suggest for using have not been used before. So the only way I can really determine that is to go back and look at those walkthrough videos.
Speaker 2:So it's not only an asset for the handler right.
Speaker 1:It really can be an asset for hosts, future hosts, wannabe hosts, hosts, future hosts, wannabe hosts, certifying officials. So we actually use this as well for us so that we can say, for instance, we know we're doing the same level.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, that was done previously.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was done the previous year and I want to make sure. Oh goodness, we have to reuse the gym.
Speaker 2:I need to make sure it's different Right for an area search.
Speaker 1:So I want to make sure I don't put my hides in the exact same place right. So we'll get on there sometimes and look to see where the hide placements were Now. So that kind of just tells us where to go and find that resource right. Locate the videos.
Speaker 2:Okay. So AKC also has something similar which is kind of something good to mention. Not all judges use it, not every trial has it, but there's some trials out there and some judges out there that are putting up debriefs. I've seen a lot of detective and higher level but everyone's not. Lower level ones are placed on as well and it's on Facebook, as AKC sent work towards judges debriefs and it's not super like active other than the debriefs that are getting posted. So it's not like there's a lot of communication back and forth, but there is in the comments, so typically the judge that comment or posts whatever the debrief is.
Speaker 2:there is some conversation back and forth underneath for questions so it's kind of a fun yeah, and it's up to the judge on how much they put and how much information, if they're going to just show the search area or if they're discussing air direction. How calls were all of that?
Speaker 1:kind of fun stuff required for the certifying officials. Because prior to COVID we actually did do and most of the people who have trialed with an ACSW remember this and it was very time consuming because we took 20, 30, depending on how many handlers we had sign up for that particular level and say for NW3, you had to take them through all six searches that you had planned for that day. So not only was it challenging in terms of the time that it took to walk in right, but also typically you had all six searches all set up first thing in the morning.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right.
Speaker 1:So the whole thing just took a lot of time, and I think that that's one thing that COVID taught us, because, obviously, what we were trying to do through COVID was to minimize the amount of human airspace being used. That's a nice way to say it. Yeah, exactly yeah, and so we devised, they devised. I do remember, though, prior to that, we had debrief videos that we put up on Facebook for any the word, and the challenge with that was because Facebook, if you create a new post for each search, then it didn't tie together the whole trial.
Speaker 1:So we really tried to go within the comments, so you started the right, so you would make your post, you would call it whatever your trial was that day, and then you would try to stay within the comments to post the next search. It was actually quite challenging to figure out, right, right, yeah, how did I cover all? So this is really well organized, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's been good.
Speaker 1:Because when you pull up a page, so even if we pull up one of these pages, I'll just pull it up and we can kind of chat from apples to apples. But what Alex was talking about, when you pull it up and you have a number of them that are just blacked out, that just basically means the trial hasn't occurred yet. So we already have 2, 4, 6, 8, 10.
Speaker 1:There's lots in there, so we've got 11 trials that are blacked out that are going to be happening this weekend, this coming weekend, right, so then if we go and we look like, one of the other ones on there that I'm always interested in looking at is the summits. So again, this is not only as a CO but also as a host I like looking at like what size search areas did they use for the summit? Yeah, that kind of thing, because that helps me plan whether or not I've got an appropriate site that I can kind of carve a summit out of and the same thing goes for all the other levels.
Speaker 1:Actually, too, the Elite S can be very helpful to look at what size searches those are, even like, for instance, up in Hermosa, south Dakota, they just did one of the first NW3s yeah, they did. Yeah, so having that host Brenda look at oh my gosh, I'm brand new. How do I do this? What do I need to have? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So that can be really helpful to look at it all that way. But when you actually click on that day right, so you've identified the trial that you want to look at, so you pull it up and it has. The first thing is kind of your homepage, which would be the 2025, right, identify all those trials. Yep, want to look at a trial in the 2025 calendar, that's in January.
Speaker 2:You literally just have to scroll down, scroll down. And it loads as you scroll. So if, like I, use control F frequently so that it quickly just goes to whatever, but you have to actually scroll down to load it for it to find it, versus the search feature, I didn't realize that We'll just pull the name.
Speaker 1:I'm like, oh, that just saved me so much time. I just didn't do anything when I just did that. Oh wait, let's see.
Speaker 2:But your search at the top should find that now, if you're looking for folders.
Speaker 1:I was looking for folders, and I just put in one of our sites, guys, I put in Gunnison, and oh, so I should have it on folders. Oh, there we go, okay Now. What I noticed about that, though, is it doesn't give you, it's not, then, organized by trial.
Speaker 2:No, and it's a little bit more difficult to kind of sort through Right.
Speaker 1:But the benefit would be hey, and it could be multiple. It's there.
Speaker 1:Like for me. I have multiple trial sites within the same city, same town, yep, and it won't sort them by which you have. But if you're familiar enough with it and you just want to see, hey, when was the last time they had that there or what did the areas look like, it can help you. So you just put in, you use the search feature at the top and then you choose folders, so then that's where that came from. Okay, so kind of going back and looking at the whole general shebang here, I don't know we might have to reload it All right, so we're finding them yeah.
Speaker 2:We're understanding what to use them From here on. Let's just do this. Let's use NECSW because it's so easy to find these videos as the example, knowing AKC has an example that you can use the same kind of information for.
Speaker 1:Right, okay. So what I did was I went to 915 and 916 Green Lane, pennsylvania. They had a summit. So as soon as I bring that up, it's got day one and day two, so it'll organize it by your day, and then, as soon as you pull those up now, you're going to get a choice of whether you want to look at virtual walkthrough, right, which?
Speaker 1:Those are the ones that are typically posted the night before, unless the CEO has a horrendous time with uploading, and typically guys try to be as patient as you you can, because it's not that we're ignoring our duties. We're typically literally trying to get it to go, and maybe our cell service isn't compatible. Whatever it is, I've even had to take the videos off my phone, put it on my laptop, get to a Wi-Fi, go from the laptop up because it wouldn't go on the Wi-Fi from the phone, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay, so then we get walkthrough and we get debriefs and results. So we'll talk about the debriefs and results. Let's do this in two sections. First, let's talk about the benefit of the virtual walkthrough, because I think that if we try to talk about both of them at once, it's going to get very confusing, especially with Alex and I because we have great depth in terms of handler experience and CEO experience, host experience and utilizing all these videos.
Speaker 2:So we just yeah, yeah. So okay, just for the sake of the conversation, let's narrow it in. As competitors, what are we using for virtual?
Speaker 1:walkthrough as a competitor.
Speaker 1:Well, and so one of my thoughts is, when you look at this and you look at the virtual walkthrough, this is kind of like when you look at your own videos and as coaches, we say to you, hey, I want you to watch your video first to watch your dog. Yeah, we say to you, hey, I want you to watch your video first to watch your dog, then I want you to watch your video to see your handler, what your handler position was, or influences or whatever's going on with you as a handler. And then, thirdly, look at it for the environment. And I think that those three categories can really help a lot. The second you start into this walkthrough video. So we want to look at it in terms of that. But as soon as you bring it up, for instance, I'm looking at a summit, so for the first day of summit, I have four searches, right, yep, yep. So for elite, I'm going to get four searches For the elite S, I'm going to get four searches Now for-.
Speaker 2:No, no, elite S you may not get videos. Oh true.
Speaker 2:Very good, that's a good point. Yeah. So elite S, you should only expect a video if the whole search area is not visible from the start line, right? So if there's a bunch of it hidden around a corner or hallway or whatever, then you might get a video you should in that situation. But otherwise, elements and elite us, you will not get a video beforehand. So that's going to change things a little bit. If you're expecting that because you're an elite or NW3 and you're saying, oh I should, I could just watch these videos, so in those situations you might want to look at the debrief videos for that information.
Speaker 1:Or but if it's morning of right, yep, just understand. And the reason we do that is because the whole idea of elements was that they were going to be smaller areas, not as complex. So it was really so that we could save time and produce that event within a half day, right From either am or pm. So that's kind of the concept of why you won't see those walkthroughs unless there's something you can't see from the start line Exactly. And then everybody will very much remind you, as well as the CO, and encourage you to say, hey, I want to take a look without starting your dog across the start line. You don't get to step in and look, right, yeah, right, but you get to look from the start line.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Into your searches, okay, yeah, okay, so kind of back. So then my point would be that for NW123, y can really be helpful for that, certainly. For one, you're going to be shown four searches, right, your four elements, and it can kind of help you at least look at and get more comfortable and familiar with what are kind of some of the spaces that we put containers in, what are some of the spaces that we use for our interiors, that we use for our vehicles, right, and what could be very helpful. And maybe sometimes, if you're going to get really nervous about it, don't look at it until the morning of when you don't have a lot of time to overthink it Anyway, is of course at level one grass right.
Speaker 2:We see grass and we're immediately going.
Speaker 1:Oh no, what do I do?
Speaker 2:There's grass right.
Speaker 1:So any amount of environment and then with NW2, you're going to have five searches that you're going to see right.
Speaker 1:One would be that duplicate of whatever element that's going to be. And that's kind of helpful because then, right there and then before the trial and the evening before, you already know you're going to have two interiors or you're going to have two containers or whatever it is. So it can help you with your expectation, right. So if expectations make you nervous, then maybe we should do some coaching to figure out why that's making you nervous. But it can be helpful to at least have an understanding of what those certioraries are. And then, for three, you would see six of them, because you would have two of them. That would be the duplications of those elements.
Speaker 1:Okay, so what we just pulled up and it's not that you're missing anything by us being able to visualize this, it's just this will help Alex and I carry on a conversation Of the same, yeah, kind of the same, ideas. I just pulled up the four searches that they did use for that summit that they had in Pennsylvania, and it's just showing larger areas, that sort of thing. So what are some of the things, if we're looking at this, that, no matter what level we're looking at, alex, that we might want to view the video for?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so things that I really want to see in the video. So I use the video for visualization. So I'm that one type of person that likes to watch the video the night before because then I can start kind of thinking about it, getting a little like back of the mind kind of ideas of what expectations of what I might have in my search areas. But it can also help set some expectations of handling. Is it going to be more difficult with a leash A little easier? Is there a lot of things in it? Do I worry about the environment?
Speaker 2:Like we were talking about grass, if I'm worried about that, what kind of productivity areas are out there versus just wandering on grass? That's not normally a great thing to be doing. Is just wandering on grass? That's not normally a great thing to be doing. So just kind of looking at what type of spaces we have and size, I frequently will start making little guesses of oh, this might be a five-minute search, this might be a four-minute search for a lead. It's not always right but it gives me some things to think about. But I find when I look at it the night before and I'm stuck awake in the middle of the night, I can start visualizing at least one of those searches and it helps me go back to sleep. For me, okay, she's weird.
Speaker 1:I know this is very weird, right, going through the same search again and again, my brain just keeps cycling and going oh Lord, am I going to remember to check blah blah, blah, blah blah.
Speaker 1:Will my dog feel comfortable on that floor. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, yeah, we get worried about that. What do you look for? So more just the orientation of the space, right? So kind of clutter versus not clutter, right, yeah, Is it? Do I feel like it presents itself, because I I'm kind of looking at it first through the lens of my dog, right, right, although that is really coupled with handling, isn't it? Because, yeah, with my dog, right now at Elite and that is probably the biggest thing that I'm looking at I want to know and I want to be honest with myself about where my dog is with their skill set when I'm looking at this, right, yeah, because it's really easy to go, oh my gosh, and especially for those of us who wear booties, to look at this and go, oh, I got a shiny floor.
Speaker 1:Oh, no, I sure hope we can walk on that thing, right, rather than just go. Okay, I'm going to trust I've trained enough. I've trained enough with my booties on and my dog he's going to feel comfortable and, by gosh, if he isn't comfortable, it's okay. I'm okay with saying we don't have to search that if you're not comfortable, even at Elite and Summit, if I come in there and my dog is petrified, I'm not going right, it's not worth it. Then it becomes one of those of going ah, I have to work on resiliency. I really got to work on either my dog's ability, because you may never extinguish your dog's, whatever those little fears are that they get. I mean, think of how weird some of our search areas must smell weird.
Speaker 2:Some of our search areas must smell right, so okay. So I've got two ideas on the same kind of concept. One on smell this past weekend I did a detective and our, our search area or yesterday um was the whole space was at equine high school and so they were doing like lower level, almost college stuff, and so the one room I was using was used as vet tech training essentially. So there was bones that were in a fume hood and every single dog was very fascinated. One was a little worried and they were all able to move on. No false alerts, but it definitely was a factor. And I also know that there's a fetal pig I think it's in formaldehyde in one of the cabinets. They found it a previous year. And I also know that there's a fetal pig, I think it's in formaldehyde in one of the cabinets. They found it a previous year, and so it draws dogs' attentions as well. And there was false alerts that year. And now I saw a lot of people like not calling things because they were aware of it. But so weird spaces, totally we're going to see those. But along the same lines of okay, I'm not going to make my dog search something that they're scared of In detective.
Speaker 2:You have an inside and an outside space and I have seen this multiple times with dogs that are worried about spaces.
Speaker 2:If you choose because the logical space is maybe interior and your dog's worried about the floor, go outside first. Just take your dog straight outside and work outside, and if you can get some hides, typically that momentum starts changing the optimism in the brain and they can start actually giving you some nice work even inside. Maybe you'll get them all, maybe not, but it makes a very different search than trying to just push them into that or giving up right away. So just kind of consider that you can just choose to do the exterior portion and then move on. Same thing for the opposite. If it's just really hot outside and you came in from hot and now we're just working inside, spend your time inside and then choose to go outside, and that's something that, if you get a debrief or a walkthrough video, you can make those decisions ahead of time to come up with a game plan. I was kind of thinking as you were and because we're watching these videos to see oh, does something make me worried?
Speaker 1:I was just going to say that we jumped right to the kind of oh no, oh no, oh no list Right.
Speaker 2:So, anybody who's listening? If you go through the virtual walkthrough just like scroll through, find a walkthrough for anything, just a random Right and challenge yourself and watch it and see, does any of those videos give you a little like oh no, that would be very bad for me. Figure out why.
Speaker 1:And that is probably a training opportunity. Yes, that's what I was just going to say. Yeah, what you want to do is also look at this in terms of your familiarity with that kind of sartoria. Yeah, and we've done this so many times, all of us, where we come away from a trial and we go, oh my gosh, I got to go find a classroom. I got to find a classroom that's at 10,000 feet, because it was level Colorado, and then I got to find one that had Linoleum yeah, linoleum, but it was summer and it only had stuff on the perimeter of the room.
Speaker 2:And there's windows with sun. Yeah, and it had windows with sun.
Speaker 1:And then I'm going to set the hide in the exact same place and guess what? It's not going to replicate exactly what happened on that day in that search for your dog. So, really, what you want to do, the first step, I think, is you just pull this up where it shows you. You haven't even chosen a video to look at yet, you just have.
Speaker 1:And I love what Alex just said, which is, I'm just going to look at these four pictures I have right now on my screen shows me the four searches for the summit, and I'm going to suggest to myself okay, what do I think the complexities of that search would be for myself and or my dog, right? So, for instance, maybe I have difficulty walking on uneven ground. So, actually, the interior searches, I'm not going to have as difficult a time looking at, but I see one that's got a lot of grass and then it's grass over to gravel. So I may be saying, okay, I'm going to take my time, I'm going to take more time, rather than go, I'm going to go out tonight and go find a field with grass and try to see how we do. That's not the point. It's actually using these visual depictions of potential searches and these are searches that have been used, right.
Speaker 2:They're realistic yeah.
Speaker 1:To help build your list of what are your pieces that you need to work on for skill sets or resiliency, and resiliency we mean you know that are just either more complex for myself or my dog, for whatever reason. It doesn't necessarily mean that I had to have visualized a dog working odor. We're not talking necessarily odor complexity in that room, just the environment, purely just the environment.
Speaker 2:Yeah, notice how we haven't said anything about hides yet. Yes, because it doesn't matter if your dog can't be confident working in a gymnasium.
Speaker 1:Right. Well, so those of us who have the crazy dog on the end of the leash right, this first one in the lower corner, guys, is a room filled with folding chairs. Oh yes, Like right, Like an audience, and they're tight on a smooth floor.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So right away I'm going. Okay, that's going to be tough for me to follow my dog. It wouldn't be tough for my dog off leash He'd do absolutely fine. But if I want to leash him up, I'm going to right. Half of those chairs may end up on the ground.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're probably going to right. Half of those chairs may end up on the ground.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we're probably going to do six foot leash Right, or I'm going to do the parameter and see where he pops it right, or I just go find someplace Maybe it's an exhibit hall, maybe I try to find an area where I can get. What do they got? They must have 10 rows there of 10 or 12 chairs across.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's a little scary, yeah, and they're all metal folding chairs Right, and then again we flip to this other picture and it's a gym floor. That's one of those wood, shiny waxed floors. There's not much stuff in it I don't see, but that might be the piece, right? Not only should I anticipate that, even if I have a dog who has no sensitivities to flooring or anything like that, I may have a very fast dog and I may be not such a fast handler. Yeah, and you go flying Right. So I'm going to get towed around on that one, oh my gosh Bayfield in May, george, there's a huge cafeteria.
Speaker 2:It's like linoleum floor, but it was really quite buffed. I went for a ride. Quite literally. I think I was sliding, surfing behind him for a good eight feet. You just hold on. Sometimes you have no options.
Speaker 1:So that can be that first look right Before I even click on it to see a video. So then, and keep in mind that, because I've noticed this as the difference between sometimes I just want to go and I want to look at a site and I jump right to the debrief as opposed to looking at the walkthrough right.
Speaker 2:I like the walkthrough because it can really help you without any like preconceived notions of where the hides were and anything Right. It gives you like a realistic. Okay, let's look at what a search area could be.
Speaker 1:Right, and understand, though, too, that we're kind of asked as certifying officials not to give you an essay on the search area. Right, the idea is just to show you the search area so you can always call it up on your computer, on your phone. It might be a little bit more difficult, but you can always put it in slow-mo and then even enlarge if you want to see different areas. Right, yeah, so we'll just look at this one, and then, so you know it's, they're showing this gym floor, yep.
Speaker 2:And as they pan around, there's a bunch of chairs on the other side, Big gym.
Speaker 2:Something I do notice on this and it would be worth looking at and I don't find that every video will show it is what does up look like. Sometimes you don't get a lot of up because it's panned down, but how high is the ceiling? Does it change halfway through the search? Because that can affect how things work and it's not something you're going to see in the moment, but if you're looking at it from the video, you might remember that and you go, oh, what's going on here? This is really weird. And you go, oh, yeah, the ceiling changed here. Okay, I'll have a little more patience is really weird.
Speaker 1:And you go, oh, yeah, the ceiling changed here. Okay, I'll go have a little more patience. Well, one of the other benefits of looking at the walkthrough right for a training sense not just as your prior to trial information but as a training sense is also because that's the point where the CO will tell you about planned boundaries right, or planned areas of the search, where you're going to come in, where you're going to exit, and, granted, those change right, and sometimes they change. Just I'm one of those weirdo hosts who will even email my CO and text my CO the night before and say, for flow, I really need to come in that other door. Yeah, right, so just understand. Those are some of the things that can happen as to why things get changed, and it's hard as handlers not to go. Oh, must have been a reason why you took that out of play.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you're thinking that it's way more than it really is.
Speaker 1:And you're, oh way, overthinking it. Okay.
Speaker 2:So along those same lines, this is competition. But you're watching a debrief video and then you go to your start line and there's all of a sudden a chair somewhere or there's oh my god, that whole table's gone now. Yeah, what does that mean? Right, it's got to be a hide, right, but not necessarily. It could just be that there was dog interest on something, necessarily. It could just be that there was dog interest on something, so they removed the object, right? Um, it could just be that the janitor was in there the night before cleaning up and put something back where you didn't think it was before. Boy, we had that happen, huh, yeah. And so then the search area looks slightly different and there was no real reason for it. Right, and competitors go, but the chair got moved there there has to be a reason yeah, so there might not be a reason Okay.
Speaker 1:So what else do we want to look at? This is pre-trial, right? So it's either pre-trial, that we're doing some training and looking at the walkthroughs, or we're getting ready to trial. I guess those are two different perspectives, obviously, and maybe we should talk about them separately, but they kind of lump themselves together because they do, and that can help too. By looking at the walkthrough, even though you're looking for a training resource or training, you want to kind of determine where your training should be focused for XYZ trial. Yeah, training should be focused for XYZ trial.
Speaker 1:So often again, as Alex mentioned, we have a tendency to focus on. I just want to know where you put the hides. Was it a high-low? Did you make a close converging? Where were those distractors in that NW2 container? How many containers did you have? Right, as if us COs are kind of like the tricksters of odor and really it's level appropriate. So that's the other thing that can really really help, not only with your confidence going into a trial, but also your training.
Speaker 1:So if I am an NW3, and I want to look at and look at them from wherever, they don't have to be in your state it's kind of hard to, because I actually have tried to do this, tried to figure out which trials were done by which CO. Oh, yeah, you can spend a lot of time doing that, right? Oh, there's a lot of? Yeah, you can go to the trial results, right, and that's kind of an easier way to search, actually, for the debrief videos is you first go to the trial results page and that will tell you the dates of a particular, because that one you can sort by state, you can sort it by level and by level, right, you can also put in hey, I want to look at all the summits that were done in 2025. Yeah, yeah, pick a couple. I want to look at all the summits that were done in 2025. Yeah, yeah, pick a couple that I want to look at underneath the smug mug and it does a great job rather than having to scroll all the way through here looking for something.
Speaker 1:Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, yeah, then the other thing you can be looking at is the variables from one day to the other. You know, if they had two threes in the same try, right, or two, twos or that sort of thing. So that can also help. Yeah, for sure, and what else can we think of? That would be. So we've already considered some of the issues of what my dog skill sets are and what I'm perceiving may be their complexities, or, and what I'm perceiving may be their complexities, or. Oh, that'll be easy for us, right?
Speaker 2:So something that one of my students, like she texted me the night before. She's like did you see the walkthrough for this? What should I do around this? And like the edge of a stage, what is a game plan to safely work where there is an edge of a stage with a dog that may not be respectful of it? And I just let her know a little bit more tension on the line so that you're always there immediately if your dog decides to go for a leap, you can already stop them from doing it, but otherwise let them receive the information over the edge, but that kind of like pre-game, so that you know what you can do in that moment versus you show up and then your dog is like ready to leap off the edge and you're like I didn't even know it was there. Having that walkthrough video can come up with plan A, plan B, so that it helps you in that moment already have something that you can get going for it.
Speaker 1:You know and that's really a good point, which is some of the hazards, because we try as best we can, both as COs and hosts, to like mark those things, like you know, the edge of a stage with orange sacchar dots or whatever, so that it's visual in the moment. I mean, sometimes we think, oh, that's so silly, why do you need to put a whole line across it and hopefully really focused with your dog which is what we all love to be, because we're so fascinated with what our dogs do you don't really look up and go, oh, that's the edge of you know, it's a five foot drop, or maybe more, or maybe it's only a two inch drop, but those are the jarring ones, right.
Speaker 1:It looked like it was a level piece, and then it falls.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Or it's slippery right.
Speaker 2:So like a wet spot on the ground, yeah, especially when it's like concrete or something and there could be a little slipping, there might be some cones around it, not because it's out of bounds, because of whatever.
Speaker 1:whatever, it's just it's dangerous Right, and we often see that with computer cords right Behind teachers' desks. Yeah, with computer cords right Behind teachers' desks. That's often there just because, look, we're trying to preserve the privacy of that teacher and all the papers they may have on their desk right, don't need to knock it all down.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so a lot of that sort of thing. Okay, so I think we covered that we know where to go find the walkthrough videos. We're going to study the space in terms of just at least looking at it as to familiarity for myself and my team.
Speaker 1:Right, and I like to think of it in terms of that, because that way, if I see something that just, oh my gosh, I've never done that, right. I can kind of go. But wait, I have done this. That was similar, right. Oh, I've never done a container search on carpet in a room that big, but I have done it, maybe in a room that's smaller. Those kinds of things. Consider your environmental factors, oh my gosh. So we all remember back in the day when we did these personal walkthrough with the crowd. Oh, yes, we're still doing with AKC.
Speaker 1:I can't even imagine what agility is like. To go out on an agility course and try to compete with all these people going from one to two to three to four to figure out how to do their mapping right For a walkthrough, for nose work. We would go in there and you know some of us would make like these detailed maps of where the windows were, where the venting was, where the door is Now.
Speaker 1:typically, I made maps like that because I have been, pretty notoriously, throughout all these years and almost 13, 14 years of doing Noah's work of not remembering where my hides were located. So I really try to make that little. And it's not a detailed map, it's more like it's a door. It's a room. There was a desk here, right, yeah, just so that I can kind of orient myself.
Speaker 2:But you're going in.
Speaker 2:Okay, so the easiest way, because I talk about this a lot in my trial prep class and we talk about visualization and drawing the map and understanding your space and using the walkthrough video. And the biggest thing about it is, if I were to tell you, or you were to find a hide in your kitchen where your cutlery drawer is, can you visualize exactly where that is? Could you probably remember where that is? Probably yes, because it's very familiar. Right, and that's where the point of like, drawing the map and visualizing and getting very familiar with your space, because it's easier to remember, because you know your landmarks.
Speaker 2:If you are, like in a strange city and your GPS brought you somewhere, like a dog brings you somewhere, and you show up to the ice cream store and then you GPS somewhere else, could you find that ice cream store again? Probably not, not unless you were really observing on your way, because it's not familiar. But if you did the exact same thing in your, like your corner, where you live, in your neighborhood, you'd be fine. So that's that familiarity part of it Right.
Speaker 1:And then we also want to look at it in terms of considering environmental factors. But don't overthink it. Yeah, right, I mean. So we've got one here up on that. We can see that's got this massive arena with a really large ceiling, high ceiling, a couple of them actually. Yeah, so what Alex was saying about you know, at least being aware that I've got that really high ceiling right. And if we don't know how that might contribute to the search or to the dog's capacity to locate odor sufficient to find source, then I go find something like that so that my dog right, my dog gets exposed to that kind of environmental factor. But it could be temperature, humidity, airflow.
Speaker 2:So one of the most.
Speaker 1:Oh, yes, true. So one of the most in terms of, because one of the questions I typically get asked is what about different areas of the country and if you're going to travel and what do you know? Blah, blah, blah blah. So the biggest thing I can say is that the trials we did in the spring of this year in actually, it was June, so that's not such spring, that's summer, right Beginning of summer In Minnesota I've never encountered such humidity like that right, Because it was just hot.
Speaker 1:The humidity index was really high. Your forehead was dripping constantly, no matter what right. So we had high humidity, whereas Alex and I are both from dry climates right. So even our expectation of what odor is going to do may have been influenced by that environment. Right, and so definitely, if you can. I don't think it's a make or break though, right, no it isn't. You just have to be very reliant upon your dog and be very willing to trust what they're doing.
Speaker 2:So what I've experienced because I gone california. I do california frequently and every once in a while when I head out to california it can be very humid. And you talk to them, they're like it's not humid, but every once in a while it can be quite humid. And I've basically showed up to a trial site and I can't see across the field because it's all fog and that fog stayed all morning. We we don't get that here, we don't have enough humidity to even create any of that. And what I have learned is you just need more patience and the dog is going to take longer because it's not familiar to them. They don't know how to solve that problem in that way as quickly. So it just takes them a little bit more time to solve that problem. And as long as you're aware of that and not rushing your dog in the conditions that are different, you'll be fine. But it's when we start rushing, because we're expecting what normally happens, we start ending up in problems.
Speaker 1:We overthink what our dog, we do yeah.
Speaker 1:We overthink and have this kind of expectation that our dog should be doing X, y, z, versus my dog is. So that's that comment about stay in the moment with your dog. Yep, so being patient, you're not just unaware, right, being patient is being very aware of odor observation and watching your dog, who at that point in time has odor recognition and odor importance and odor drive. And if we're missing any of those, which you may be so that green grass field could become a very large challenge for my dog who does not have grass. So in the spring, when it's all fresh and juicy, wow, I may just get a grazing dog right. So I find places where I can go maybe it's in town, wherever and try to do some training with that particular environmental piece, and that's kind of what I call terrain. So the terrain is the concrete, the grass, rocks, snow, rain, right, snow, believe it or not. I have two dogs who are major snow dogs. They don't like rain. Zeke actually like tries to close his eyes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's so gross.
Speaker 1:Right their ears, close the ears and we haven't had a lot of rain has been my problem. Yeah so, and you can't really duplicate that like with a hey, I've turned on the sprinklers.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay, I've done it. I've tried to replicate some of that. But yeah, I have turned on sprinklers to work on before that's a good idea.
Speaker 1:I probably should do that with him. Um so, and it just happens to be, we're in a kind of a major drought right now for us, I know, turned on sprinklers to work on before.
Speaker 1:That's a good idea. I probably should do that with him. So and it just happens to be, we're in a kind of a major drought right now for us, I know. Okay. So then, now that we've kind of considered the space, we know where to find these videos. We've looked at environmental factors. Now we're going to look at even when we get to the debrief videos like Alex was suggesting, which is, I'm going to watch maybe some of my own videos with my dog in that same similar type of environment, yeah, and then watch the debriefs and say, okay, what has my analysis or my assessment of my dog's skill sets been able to tell me about what may or may not happen in this particular search?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so a lot of us will go into some of these may watch the video and we have a bias of what we have, the one memory of happening, but we aren't actually realistic. Our memories are crap. Just be aware of that. It's all based on emotion, and so it might just be once that our dog peed on grass all based on emotion, and so it might just be once that our dog peed on grass. And so now we view every grass surface as terrible. But realistically, your dog has searched on grass maybe a hundred times, and only one time was bad, and so we only remember the one bad time and we don't remember all the rest of it. And so I think it's important to look at videos of oh, my dog searches on grass like this and it's successful and it's working. And then, when there's no odor, this is what they look like. Okay, now when we start applying that to this environment, let's see what it would be.
Speaker 1:Okay. So I think that gives us a really good idea of looking at the walkthrough videos. Yeah, and Alex did mention that even for some of the other venues, the host may have the capacity to do walkthrough videos and send you those links for those. And if not, then imagine that you're stepping to the start line and looking is the same, yeah, the same right, and that singular view of looking at the search.
Speaker 1:Okay, so now we're going to go check on the debriefs and results. So one of the first things I do when I look at this and it's you know, and especially if I'm trying to do any kind of analysis for a handler who actually searched at that trial, right, some of the first things I need to look at is both the search summary sheet and the debrief summary, right. So the search summary is where the COs are writing what the name of the search was, the number of hides, the time allotted, whether it was on or off leash. Then we have a column for hide location. That may be just a list of saying it was here or it may be a diagram, whichever, and then any comments they had, perhaps telling you where the distractors were and that kind of thing right.
Speaker 1:So yeah, and then I like to look at the debrief summary which tells you kind of the passing percentages, so you know where the reason like where everybody else is. The reason I do that and especially when I'm trying to help somebody maybe determine what their challenges were at the trial.
Speaker 1:If the average pass rate is 57% or 29.73, then I'm going to say, okay, wherever that interior or was that created that particular pass rate and, granted, what that means is that they had literally 29.73 or whatever it is, get all three hides for that search, right? So I happen to be looking at an NW3 right now. We know that three hide searches can be the most I think almost the most difficult in three, right, because often you get two hides and you're immediately thinking, okay, I don't want to stay in here too long, I want to just get out. And, heaven forbid, if you already had a search that was blank, then you're really putting it in your brain that there can't be three. But anyway, I like to look at that just for purposes of that. So I don't overthink that one search, one right, that one search. And I do think that the container searches can really help you with the debrief and that diagram can be very helpful, right, because sometimes when, as CEOs, when we point at something, we can't get our finger or the thing we're pointing with.
Speaker 1:And that's the other caution. So, yes, I'm going to look at this for purposes of because when you do the debrief, we are going to give you the video scope of the search with relationship to the hides. So now it's not just a big overview, it's more like you came in this door your first hide was over here. It's almost very, because, again, we have limited amount of time. We don't want to do a whole essay that takes up a lot of storage space or time. Right, exactly, yeah, you have to keep thinking that we have to get it from our phone up into the cloud and then it has to stay there for some period of time.
Speaker 1:So we don't want to make it overly onerous in that. In that regard, I don't want to make it overly onerous in that regard. So, and then the other piece is I'm often like, well, pointing at that thing and telling me it was in that drawer doesn't really tell me right, exactly where it was in terms of that environment. So you just have to understand that, right.
Speaker 2:Same as like a chair, like somebody's like, oh, it was on that chair, exactly, but where on that chair? Was it at the foot? Was it on the back Right? And that subtlety isn't always expressed, yeah Right, and that can make or break some of that.
Speaker 1:And we'll have different sometimes. What happens to guys is it can also depend on as a CO gosh, you're trying to get so much stuff done. I mean I don't want to make excuses for us, because we still want to make sure that you get good information, especially from your debrief videos, right, Because that kind of becomes that piece of. I can't really analyze the video services. I got video without having an idea of where the hide went.
Speaker 1:And that's another piece right so we can look at these debriefs and that might be where the hide was placed, at least the general location.
Speaker 2:But it doesn't say where the odor went.
Speaker 1:I'm looking at the vehicle. It was in the front, or not? Only does it not tell us where the odor went, but what happens if we had that environmental factor that created the call being further than just the one corner of the chair? Yeah, you sufficiently identified where that hide is located for the judge to say, yes, right, and it was a broader zone than where we may be pointing as the CO.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Totally Okay. So what else can we do from the debriefs? I think that one of the most important things to do again is just familiarity, like I'm going to go look at them. And I'm going to go, oh, cause I. Often I'm like, okay, I see on my sheet what hides I got. Where was that one hide on what? Where was the hide I missed? Or, oh my gosh, it says I got a drum pedal hide, but where the heck was that? I don't remember a drum pedal, right.
Speaker 1:So it can really help with that whole piece of really trying to review where your dog went in that search, right. Yep, Then what things can we learn from the debrief? So I think that really the analysis should be focused on not the result, but our problem solving skill set at that point in time and what we need maybe to either expose and experience with our dogs to improve our skill sets right, or maybe to um, uh, become more resilient on things that were maybe more problematic. Become more resilient on things that were maybe more problematic. Totally yeah. So problematic is easy to say. Floors, it could be ice maker, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:For those of us who like, may have noise sensitive dogs, that sort of thing Clink, clink, clink yeah. Yes, right Almost. That stupid ice maker decided to make no ice. When I went in there, no one else.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly yeah. I really like those debrief videos to put pictures or connect pictures of changes behavior from your own videos and you could do it from GoPro videos. It's a little harder to overlie both kind of concepts. A video service can give you a little bit more information for that, but I like using okay, if this is where the hides were, you can start seeing where the edges of the plumes were. Where are they overlapping? You can watch your dog work in between those different locations.
Speaker 2:If you don't know where the hides are, it's hard to understand sometimes what those changes of behavior are really meaning. Or if you only know where the hides are, it's hard to understand sometimes what those changes of behavior are really meaning. Or if you only know where the hides are that you found which sometimes happens when I review AKC videos, because AKC doesn't always have debriefs, so you don't actually always know where all the hides were in the search when you leave and as a judge they're required only to tell you where the closest one was. If you got to know, so you don't always know where they all were. If you got to know, detective, you do, because you have a map but something like masters or exteriors, and maybe you had four in exterior and you missed one. You might not know really where it is and so that can become a little bit more difficult to interpret sometimes all the changes of behavior, and did we miss it because we didn't get over there, because of handling, or do we even know where it is? Kind of situation.
Speaker 1:Right, no, and that's, I think that's very valid right. So, and then again, we also have to remember to kind of layer those, those pieces of perception. So one of them is oh my gosh, we went into this search and it was on that shiny wood floor with containers and my dog did fabulous right, was able to go in search, come out right, that kind of thing Because, or say, for instance, we, like Alex is suggesting we also have either our video services video or our body cam video, and we're noticing our dog went up and down the container several times and we're very curious as to, well, I wonder one, why my dog didn't engage in an inspection method right, where the dog was actually drawn into, you know, investigating each and every container, one after the other. I think handlers have a tendency to love that method because it's very, it feels more like we have a 50-50 chance. Yeah exactly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, then if the containers are there and the dog is searching the air, we're more likely to go oh, no, right, it could be that the odor isn't quite as available as I would like it to be. So is my dog missing something, Right? Yeah, but even looking at it that way and we can say okay. So with my and I know that for NW2, we're very focused now on these container searches and maybe even overly focused on the distractors, in my opinion, because I think we do very well if, from the very beginning, when we're training our dog, if we treat everything that isn't source as a distraction, everything Meaning even if it is pooling odor, that can be a distraction to sourcing. As a human being, where I stand is a distraction to my dog. Working to source. Yeah, Even if I'm in the most wonderful position at all times, I can still be a distraction.
Speaker 2:There's always influence Right.
Speaker 1:There's just no way you're going to strip it away. So I think that that was kind of the intent of upping the game, if you will, with the distractions intentional distractors in containers is so that we become more willing to engage with our dogs with odor and build up their odor drive and their odor importance and their odor confidence so that odor becomes the most important. It's the name of the game, right? They?
Speaker 1:come in and they're looking to identify odor and then identify its pathway to source. So I think that can be a great way to look at it too, which is just you know. The other piece that I've done is I've even gotten very analytical to the point, especially at Elite, with pooling and trapping and moving up and training a lot of people at Summit and that sort of thing is really looking at the high placement and then with coupled with the video services or my or body cam, to see where the dog was working, that pooling right, yeah, so how, how did it really create that pooling, odor problem? And um, because I think the the challenge at three um and moving up through elite s and then into elite and summit is the concept of pooling that's not easily connected to source.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think watching the videos and the debrief videos is giving you that information. It's not just high placement, but then it also is training your eye to see it. Yes, so then you can recognize it because you are actually seeing it. To break it down, because we have the answer, then, when we're watching the videos, then you can start training your eye of like okay, this work is not productive. This is what it looks like. The changes are less pronounced, it's a little bit more fluffy, it doesn't have a clear direction, intensity is a little lacking and then, as they get nearer to us.
Speaker 1:We've been standing here in the same spot For a and then, as we've been standing here in the same spot for a minute, for quite a long time enough, so that my patience is like what is? There is odor present, but it's not productive pathway to source Exactly. And those two, believe me, as we get further and further up the line, that's exactly what we're measuring. So that is also part of the importance of looking at the debrief videos.
Speaker 1:Look at them as level appropriate. So, even if you're at NW3 and you're closing in on your NW3 elite and you really want to start looking at the elites, still study what is the skill set at three? And has my dog met those skill sets and the way you can tell those skill sets and what they should be. If you can't tell from looking at the debrief videos or the walkthroughs, get with someone like Alex or myself or a coach who can kind of explain it to you. Because, my gosh, the size of the search area where we put our start lines, where we place the hide. So a chair is a chair is a chair, oh my gosh. But you still have to come in and the dog has to work. Odor to that chair, right? So it's still a very worthy hide placement there. It's done on purpose right.
Speaker 2:Like the detective I sat yesterday had a very purposeful area, had no hides. I knew odor would blow into it, catch on all the vegetation and there's a lot of extra destruction in there like bird poop and all this other stuff. It was on purpose and it did catch some people because they didn't recognize that and it's purposely set. So we have to recognize that when it happens.
Speaker 1:Well, I think this has been a really great discussion, so both Alex and I have more coming up. If you want to learn more about how to use your walkthrough and debrief videos for your training and trial success, alex has a online class that you're doing, so tell us about that.
Speaker 2:So my trial prep class starts up on Monday. All my working spots are full, but there's a lot of auditing spots available and we go through the mental management piece of it. We go through how to use walkthrough videos, how to review your own videos, creating training plans for your dog, really trying to up your game as a handler and a competitor to be able to be the best you to walk to the line. So that's kind of what that one's all about, and it it's six weeks, starting next week, and it's kind of a fun one online, yay, and you've got a webinar.
Speaker 1:Well, and part of that trial prep you mentioned, you are going to delve into literally how to use the walkthrough and do the videos.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we go step by step in the live workshop, yeah, so yep.
Speaker 1:And then I have one coming up on ScentWork University and it is October 14th, it's going to be at 5 o'clock on Mountain Time and we're going to have a webinar there. I actually had some viewers write in and ask that I do this particular type of webinar and I'm really wanting to again, you know, the thing that I fall back on because it's just been such a great tool for me as a handler, as a coach, as a CO and as a judge is looking at it in terms of those three tiers dog, handler and environment. And you know what can I do to either learn how to expose my dog and give my dog the opportunity to experience learning through the walkthrough videos. I just love the graphic that Diana Santos put up. It's got the two dogs watching the walkthrough video.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I love it.
Speaker 2:It's so cute.
Speaker 1:Why, as human beings, we go oh, wouldn't that be great if my dog would just watch it? And I'm like, yes, but no, I really don't want my dog to see visually. Yeah, they want to use their nose. My dog to see olfactory, right, yep, yep, use your nose. You're just in there for one purpose. You don't need to go look at the ball, that's underneath the couch.
Speaker 2:Yeah, don't need to go. Look at the ball that's underneath the couch, yeah don't find those or the shiny floor and go.
Speaker 1:Oh no right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:Well, thanks for joining us everybody and hope you enjoyed this podcast. We'll be back next month. We'll get this one up for you for your listening pleasure here shortly and go forth. And trial we have a trial coming up in Fruita this next weekend and then I have four more, I think. Wow you've got so many this fall, I know. Oh, and also just a quick shout out Thanks for everybody's patience. We had wildfires that just ruined havoc with our schedule. Trial schedule.
Speaker 2:Trial schedule had some cancellations of sites just pending getting those fires out and getting firemen and incident command out of the area that we wanted to use for search.
Speaker 1:So yeah, so that all worked. So thanks so much. Anything you can think of Alex.
Speaker 2:No, have fun this season. Be nice to yourselves. It's hard when we trial, so be kind to yourself.
Speaker 1:And be kind to your dog.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, thanks everybody.
